Zastava USA to Bring in 7.62x25 PPZ?

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I emailed them and this was their response:
"We actually have not heard any word one way or the other on the PPZ as of yet. We're always shooting for new and interesting imports, though. If any word comes up on it we'll be sure to make an announcement regarding it."

Let them know you want it, folks. Zastava USA is very responsive to consumer demand.
 
I would be down for a modern 7.62x25 chambered pistol, in fact I was hoping Ruger would do that with their 57, but I doubt it. This PPZ looks like a good platform for a pistol in 7.62 Tok, but I have severe doubts they would do it because the magwell would need to be longer given how long the cartridge is, thus it may need a different frame altogether.

I'm also not sure if it's worth buying a gun that has limited ammo options available. Right now it's basically milspec ball and one or two JHP options that I'm not sure work. I know the PPU Defense Line can work, there's ONE gel test video on youtube showing it.

On another forum the topic of 5.7 came up and someone had said that any of these bottleneck pistol rounds are all a novelty with no real future and it's hard not to argue. Sure, with 5.7 there is lessened recoil and they can be capable of defeating soft body armor, but is that enough to justify the cost? Most people are going to say no, so ammo price is never going to go down, ammo availability will not get much better, maybe a little. A gun like the PPZ in 7.62 Tok will inevitably just become a range toy with little purpose because it alone will not change the ammo market.

People by in large cannot justify spending twice the price of 9mm for a caliber that does what exactly?

That said, I've long held the belief that 7.62x25 is one of the few bottleneck pistol calibers that has any potential to increase in market share enough to get ammo prices down and availability and variety up and that's largely because of the low price of milsurp pistols and at one time ammo.
 
TTv2 said:
I wou......

That said, I've long held the belief that 7.62x25 is one of the few bottleneck pistol calibers that has any potential to increase in market share enough to get ammo prices down and availability and variety up and that's largely because of the low price of milsurp pistols and at one time ammo.
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There is still a market for the .357 sig pistol round. I do not believe it has dazzling sales records, but it is still around.
There are semi wildcats like the .32 NAA. I think there is a niche market for a modern pistol in 7.62x25. Think that if only 1% of american gun fanciers purchased one.

I am not likely to buy one myself. I might make an exception if glock made one. But Glock would have to likely make a new frame for one. 1.34 in for 7.62x25 mm overall length vs 1.260 in for the 10 mm.
 
barnetmill said:
There is still a market for the .357 sig pistol round. I do not believe it has dazzling sales records, but it is still around.
There are semi wildcats like the .32 NAA. I think there is a niche market for a modern pistol in 7.62x25. Think that if only 1% of american gun fanciers purchased one.

I am not likely to buy one myself. I might make an exception if glock made one. But Glock would have to likely make a new frame for one. 1.34 in for 7.62x25 mm overall length vs 1.260 in for the 10 mm.
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The necessity of a unique frame for these long pistol cartridges is a dealbreaker for most manufacturers who aren't already tooled up to make them. Look how long it took for someone other than FN to make a 5.7x28 pistol.

.357 Sig is only around because converting to it from .40 is easy, but I don't see much point in .357 Sig over .40 or 10mm. Heavier bullets and easier cases to reload.

I do like .32 NAA a lot in short barrel micro pistols because it has a lot better velocity than .380 does, but uses nearly the same projectile weights. I really cannot think of anything that makes .380 a better performing round in the micro pistols over .32 NAA and it's a crying shame that companies that make the tiny .380 pistols don't also offer a .32 NAA chambered version.

Actually, those companies don't even have to make a .32 NAA model, just make an accessory barrel so people can practice with the .380 ACP barrel with cheap ammo and use the .32 NAA barrel for carrying.
 
I was a big fan of 7.62x25 when you could get Chinese ammo in the caliber for under 7 cents a round and it was the cheapest centerfire ammo on the market. Not so much now that it's much more expensive than 9mm. When I shoot up all the 7.62x25 ammo I currently have (which may be difficult to do since it's steel-jacketed and most of the ranges around here won't allow it), the one pistol I have in the caliber will likely be sold.
 
TTv2 said:
The necessity of a unique frame for these long pistol cartridges is a dealbreaker for most manufacturers who aren't already tooled up to make them. Look how long it took for someone other than FN to make a 5.7x28 pistol.

.357 Sig is only around because converting to it from .40 is easy, but I don't see much point in .357 Sig over .40 or 10mm. Heavier bullets and easier cases to reload.

I do like .32 NAA a lot in short barrel micro pistols because it has a lot better velocity than .380 does, but uses nearly the same projectile weights. I really cannot think of anything that makes .380 a better performing round in the micro pistols over .32 NAA and it's a crying shame that companies that make the tiny .380 pistols don't also offer a .32 NAA chambered version.

Actually, those companies don't even have to make a .32 NAA model, just make an accessory barrel so people can practice with the .380 ACP barrel with cheap ammo and use the .32 NAA barrel for carrying.
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The PPZ is already produced in 7.62x25. It just isn't imported (yet).

Red Army Standard & PPU already have pretty reasonably priced new production 7.62 Tok ammo available. Surplus is still around. https://www.sgammo.com/product/762x...5-86-grain-fmj-ball-tokarev-ammo-made-romania

Imagine Underwood loading Extreme Defender ammo or an all copper hp...
 
js8588 said:
Surplus is still around. https://www.sgammo.com/product/762x...5-86-grain-fmj-ball-tokarev-ammo-made-romania
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Surplus ammo is only good (for me anyways) when it allows cheap shooting. This stuff is more expensive than new production boxer primed 9mm. Same site, WWB: https://www.sgammo.com/product/9mm-...ain-fmj-target-range-bulk-ammo-sale-wincheste

The surplus 7.62x25 is $0.36 per round and the new 9mm is $0.27 per round.

Even if I'm shooting 7.62x25 I'd rather just buy commercial ammo at those prices. It's a pain to reload but at least if I'm feeling motivated I can reuse the brass :).
 
mgmorden said:
Surplus ammo is only good (for me anyways) when it allows cheap shooting. This stuff is more expensive than new production boxer primed 9mm. Same site, WWB: https://www.sgammo.com/product/9mm-...ain-fmj-target-range-bulk-ammo-sale-wincheste

The surplus 7.62x25 is $0.36 per round and the new 9mm is $0.27 per round.

Even if I'm shooting 7.62x25 I'd rather just buy commercial ammo at those prices. It's a pain to reload but at least if I'm feeling motivated I can reuse the brass :).
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Largely the reason I'm looking to get a 9mm Zastava Tokarev to be a trainer for the 7.62x25 Tok.
 
mgmorden said:
Surplus ammo is only good (for me anyways) when it allows cheap shooting. This stuff is more expensive than new production boxer primed 9mm. Same site, WWB: https://www.sgammo.com/product/9mm-...ain-fmj-target-range-bulk-ammo-sale-wincheste

The surplus 7.62x25 is $0.36 per round and the new 9mm is $0.27 per round.

Even if I'm shooting 7.62x25 I'd rather just buy commercial ammo at those prices. It's a pain to reload but at least if I'm feeling motivated I can reuse the brass :).
Click to expand...

For me the point of surplus 7.62 Tok is it defeats body armor.
 
Based on my read of the NIJ body armor standards, my guess is that .357SIG FMJ from a 6" extended barrel would probably offer the about same penetration capability.
 
JohnKSa said:
Based on my read of the NIJ body armor standards, my guess is that .357SIG FMJ from a 6" extended barrel would probably offer the about same penetration capability.
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Yet the ammo would cost more, lol.
 
barnetmill said:
There is still a market for the .357 sig pistol round. I do not believe it has dazzling sales records, but it is still around.
There are semi wildcats like the .32 NAA. I think there is a niche market for a modern pistol in 7.62x25. Think that if only 1% of american gun fanciers purchased one.

I am not likely to buy one myself. I might make an exception if glock made one. But Glock would have to likely make a new frame for one. 1.34 in for 7.62x25 mm overall length vs 1.260 in for the 10 mm.
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Waiting for someone else to chime in about the 30 Luger.
 
Yet the ammo would cost more, lol.
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True, .357Sig ammo is somewhat more expensive than 7.62x25 surplus. But that's not really the whole story.

For one thing, it's quality, modern ammunition and if you decide you want it, you can get premium self-defense ammo (expanding ammo), something not so easy to do with 7.62x25.

You don't have to worry about corrosive ammunition issues. There is modern, non-corrosive ammo for the 7.62x25, but it costs the same as (often more than) comparable .357SIG and the available selection for 7.62 is much smaller.

If ammo cost is a major concern, .357SIG is easily converted to 9mm for range use or inexpensive practice.

And, of course, a huge advantage is it is available in modern firearms. If you go with a major manufacturer, that gives you tremendously more accessory availability (holsters, night sights, rail-mounted accessories, etc.) and no worries about parts availability or support.

When 7.62x25 ammo and firearms could be had at extremely low prices, it sort of made sense to get involved with the round. Now that things have changed, it's really hard to justify it on any other basis than that you just want to. Not that there's anything wrong with that justification--I have a number of guns that aren't really practical that I bought just because I wanted them. I'm not gonna say how many... :D
 
JohnKSa said:
True, .357Sig ammo is somewhat more expensive than 7.62x25 surplus. But that's not really the whole story.

For one thing, it's quality, modern ammunition and if you decide you want it, you can get premium self-defense ammo (expanding ammo), something not so easy to do with 7.62x25.

You don't have to worry about corrosive ammunition issues. There is modern, non-corrosive ammo for the 7.62x25, but it costs the same as (often more than) comparable .357SIG and the available selection for 7.62 is much smaller.
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lol, wut?



https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...25mm-tokarev-jhp-85-grain-50-rounds?a=2078143

Sorry, I can't find a link to any .357 Sig JHP ammo available for order, but it's all way more in price than the PPU.

If ammo cost is a major concern, .357SIG is easily converted to 9mm for range use or inexpensive practice.
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Can't disagree there.

And, of course, a huge advantage is it is available in modern firearms. If you go with a major manufacturer, that gives you tremendously more accessory availability (holsters, night sights, rail-mounted accessories, etc.) and no worries about parts availability or support.
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Yeah, if I'm buying a modern pistol, I may as well just get a 9mm.

When 7.62x25 ammo and firearms could be had at extremely low prices, it sort of made sense to get involved with the round. Now that things have changed, it's really hard to justify it on any other basis than that you just want to. Not that there's anything wrong with that justification--I have a number of guns that aren't really practical that I bought just because I wanted them. I'm not gonna say how many... :D
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IDK, I mean, 7.62x25 is known for defeating all soft body armor and that may come in handy.
 
Sorry, I can't find a link to any .357 Sig JHP ammo available for order, but it's all way more in price than the PPU.
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Ok, first we're mixing things a bit from what I actually said.

I didn't say that .357SIG JHP ammo was cheaper than 7.62x25 JHP ammo. What I said about JHP ammo was that "you can get premium self-defense ammo (expanding ammo), something not so easy to do with 7.62x25." SGAMMO, right now, has a good selection of premium self-defense .357SIG ammo in stock. Yes, it costs more than the PPU, but then again, PPU JHP has kind of a spotty reputation--if you look at several penetration testing results, it often doesn't expand or has inconsistent expansion. Personally, I wouldn't classify it as "premium self-defense ammo". Off the top of my head I don't know anyone making ammo for the 7.62x25 that I would feel comfortable calling "premium self-defense ammo". I'm not saying there isn't any, I just don't know of any right this second and I know that back when I was using a 7.62x25 pistol for self-defense I couldn't find any.

Ok, about cost. What I said about cost was that there is "modern, non-corrosive ammo for the 7.62x25, but it costs the same as (often more than) comparable .357SIG and the available selection for 7.62 is much smaller." If you look at SGAMMO, again, their PPU FMJ ammo in .357SIG and 7.62x25 ammo is about the same price. About 40 cents a round. I probably should just have said it costs "about the same".
Yeah, if I'm buying a modern pistol, I may as well just get a 9mm.
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I was trying to stay with your requirement for something that would penetrate the lower levels of body armor.
IDK, I mean, 7.62x25 is known for defeating all soft body armor and that may come in handy.
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Right. I thought that was a concern for you. Which is why I brought up .357SIG in the first place. "Based on my read of the NIJ body armor standards, my guess is that .357SIG FMJ from a 6" extended barrel would probably offer the about same penetration capability."
 
JohnKSa said:
.......
If ammo cost is a major concern, .357SIG is easily converted to 9mm for range use or inexpensive practice.

And, of course, a huge advantage is it is available in modern firearms. If you go with a major manufacturer, that gives you tremendously more accessory availability (holsters, night sights, rail-mounted accessories, etc.) and no worries about parts availability or support.
...................... :D
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In some glocks I hear it only requires a new barrel. In my G33 .357 sig for a few hundred round just the addition of a conversion barrel worked, but after a while I started to get the worst lack of ejection jams. The fired casing would remain held by the extractor as the smaller rim slipped past the .357 sig ejectior and then the slide would push a new round out of the magazine. It quite a double jam and took a little while to clear. Racking the slide would not work because the ejector was not hitting the rim. If I had installed a 9mm ejector I think it would have worked properly
Friend told he his G22 worked well with a 9mm conversion barrel.
 
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