45/70 or 450 Marlin or ????

js8588 said:

Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Doubletap, HSM and I'm sure a number of others offer very spicy 45-70. If you can post on this forum, you can certainly order them.

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Oh, I agree. I can still get 50 BMG API, they just don’t have it in the country hardware store or even Walmart in the city.

That said, if you are ordering 45-70 online you could just as easily be ordering 450 Marlin. Neither are rare in the internet, on the shelf at a local store the “spicy” 45-70 is likely as rare or more so than the 450 M

jmorris said:

That said, if you are ordering 45-70 online you could just as easily be ordering 450 Marlin.

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The point is fair, but pointing out it’s not entirely true is also.

(Edited to correct my miscount last night - Bushmaster inventory instead Marlin)

As an example, there are only 2 loads listed for 450M at Midway tonight, both showing in stock. For 45-70, there are 38 standard pressure and 7 “+P” loads listed, with 5 of the +P’s in stock and 21 of the standard pressure loads available. Selecting among 26 options feels a lot better than 2. I was surprised to only find one brand of brass there for 450, and only 2 for 45-70, but not surprisingly, the 450 isn’t available - seasonal run - while both brands of 45-70 are available.

Yes, the internet does make far more available to us, but low market volume items are still harder to find than higher volume items.

Hornady has been the only supplier of brass for the .450 that im aware of....actually i just hit midway I only saw 2 loads for the 450M, and 13 for the 450Bushy.

quick search shows little or no brass available, which is a bit of a surprise. Tho when I built my .375 ruger i couldnt get any brass either.

Varminterror said:

The point is fair, but pointing out it’s not entirely true is also.

As an example, there are 12 loads listed for 450M at Midway tonight, only 9 of which are in stock. For 45-70, there are 38 standard pressure and 7 “+P” loads listed, with 5 of the +P’s in stock...

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Actually makes the point, shows that there are more 450 Marlin loads than “spicy” factory 45-70 not only in existence but in stock as well, at least from that source.

45/70 and a Ruger No 1 can't go wrong a bit light for the heavier,border line 458 loads. You can find 45/70 ammo just about anywhere,can't say I've seen 450 marlin anywhere locally.

The problem with the standard (non-boutique) .450Marlin loads is that they are primarily deer loads with tender bullets. Most of the heavy .45/70 loads people have been using for decades are not light bullet deer loads. I only see TWO .450Marlin loads at Midway, a Hornady 325gr and a Buffalo Bore 405gr, which is almost twice as much. There are 44 different .45-70 loads. I'd say about half of them are +P or comparable to the .450M.

.45-70 would be my choice....

CraigC said:

The problem with the standard (non-boutique) .450Marlin loads is that they are primarily deer loads with tender bullets. Most of the heavy .45/70 loads people have been using for decades are not light bullet deer loads. I only see TWO .450Marlin loads at Midway, a Hornady 325gr and a Buffalo Bore 405gr, which is almost twice as much. There are 44 different .45-70 loads. I'd say about half of them are +P or comparable to the .450M.

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Ah, bugger all!

I accidentally noted loads for 450 Bushmaster yesterday, not Marlin.

Indeed, only two loads available for the 450 MARLIN at Midway, both currently in stock.

Compared to 45 for the 45-70, 38 standard and 7 +P, with 5 of the +P’s and 21 of the standards in stock.

5’s a lot more than 2, and 26, well... it’s a lot, lot more.

And yes, ONE of the 450 Marlin loads is a simple 325 FTX, pushed at 2225fps (the 45-70 version at 2050). Certainly more comparable to the 38 “standard” 45-70 loads. So 1 vs. 38, or 1 vs. 7...

I figured that's what you looked at.

You guys made me go looking and Ho Lee smokes, that stuff is expensive!

The cheap stuff is $3.56 per round. If your not a handloader you should start, won’t take long to recuperate the investment.

Also found it interesting that the 45-70 round was slightly more powerful than the “heavy” 450.



Makes my investment in Remington 405’s all those years ago at $120/500 seem brilliant.

Shop around. You can get +p 45-70 for ~$2.25/rd

jmorris said:

The only reason the 450 exists is so you can’t put more powerful ammunition in a 45-70. It doesn’t do anything that the 45-70 cannot except be harder to find.

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Yes and no. It also is rimless, you can chamber rifles that don’t support the large rim of the 45-70, but also not willing to accept the stout 458 win mag.

But for the most part I agree with that statement

They also made the belt longer so they couldn’t be chambered in longer chamber/smaller bore “belted magnum” rifles. Smart, as they likely prevented kaboom threads like the 300 blk in 223 rifle ones we see from time to time.

js8588 said:

Shop around. You can get +p 45-70 for ~$2.25/rd

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Is there a SAAMI operating pressure for +P 45-70 like other rounds?

.45-70 Magnum? I guess I haven't been keeping up.

Is there a SAAMI operating pressure for +P 45-70 like other rounds?

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Most load manuals show 3 levels. One is basically black powder equivalent and suitable for all rifles. The Marlin and Winchester lever actions fall into the 2nd tier of loads and are considerably more potent. The 3rd level is for Ruger single shots and bolt action rifles only.

At the time the 450 was introduced most, if not all factory loads fell into the 1st category. It was intended for guys with modern lever guns that wanted enhanced performance and didn't handload. It filled a role then. Probably not so much now

Looks like it varies (a lot) depending on who is the manufacturer vs a SAMMI designation like some others.




Hornady has trapdoor loads stop at 25k cup, 1895 loads at 40k and #1 loads at 50k.

MEHavey said:

If handloader -- 45-70
If commercial only -- 450M

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^^^^ This^^^

All things considered I think that you are better off buying a #1 in .45-70 as has been said.
Easy to reload, easy to obtain, less expensive, and a great action for a straight-walled rimmed casing.
And it will do anything that the .450 Marlin will do with the heavier hand loads.

There's a 4th 45-70 level, many will never see.

troy fairweather said:

There's a 4th 45-70 level, many will never see.

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Yeah, your siamese mauser is basically a 458 Win Mag

js8588 said:

Yeah, your siamese mauser is basically a 458 Win Mag

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my chamber has a long throat to so I can run pretty long. Mag is just over 3.00 but have done some single shot c.o.l.s

MEHavey said:

If handloader -- 45-70
If commercial only -- 450M

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Actually, I’d say the opposite. There are easily obtainable 45/70 rounds galore. 450 not as common. And the 450 isn’t available in as many configurations. Heck the 450 could turn out to be another 45 GAP.