Speedloaders v. Moonclips for SD
- Thread starter jski
- Start date
- Status
.38 Special
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2006
- Messages
- 7,388
Moonclips are a hell of a lot faster and much more fumble proof. They also are much easier to squish if you bump into a door frame or something, and even a little bit of a bend renders them useless.
Speedloaders are tougher but take up even more space than moonclips, and under extreme stress I doubt the average fellow's ability to manipulate them.
I am a die-hard revolver man, but I honestly believe that if reloading during a gunfight strikes a person as an important thing then he is better off with an auto.
Speedloaders are tougher but take up even more space than moonclips, and under extreme stress I doubt the average fellow's ability to manipulate them.
I am a die-hard revolver man, but I honestly believe that if reloading during a gunfight strikes a person as an important thing then he is better off with an auto.
Ernie Bass
member
Love moon clips. Have about 200 for my LCR9mm. But if you are talking about the J-Frame like the 642 then be careful and there are not many stocked.
.455_Hunter
Member
I view reloading as more of an adminstrative function immediately after the encounter, not during. I generally carry a speed strip in case Bubba has friends who are not happy with what happened, and the police are not there yet.
Last edited:
Ohen Cepel
Member
Another speed strip guy. New gadget called the RASC if you want to put a pocket clip on your Bianchi strip (stick with Bianchi as the Quick Strips didn't fit mine right).
I carried Safariland speedloaders for years and think they are much better than the Hks ones where you have to turn the silver knob as the Safarialand's have a spring detent inside which drops the rounds in once the loader is most of the way onto the cylinder. That said, I now mostly carry a strip as it rides in my pocket much easier.
If one carries moon clips do protect them as they are ruined easily. The Safarilands I carried for year and never had an issue with one, but they are bulky and I'm not sure they make a J-frame sized one.
May I ask the OP, why a steel J-Frame? Their appeal to me is that they aren't heavy if you get the alloy frames, Sc ideally. Hot .38's aren't fun with a light gun but they aren't brutal.
I carried Safariland speedloaders for years and think they are much better than the Hks ones where you have to turn the silver knob as the Safarialand's have a spring detent inside which drops the rounds in once the loader is most of the way onto the cylinder. That said, I now mostly carry a strip as it rides in my pocket much easier.
If one carries moon clips do protect them as they are ruined easily. The Safarilands I carried for year and never had an issue with one, but they are bulky and I'm not sure they make a J-frame sized one.
May I ask the OP, why a steel J-Frame? Their appeal to me is that they aren't heavy if you get the alloy frames, Sc ideally. Hot .38's aren't fun with a light gun but they aren't brutal.
AK103K
member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
- Messages
- 7,610
Safariland makes J frame speedloaders, and they are what I use with mine.
I prefer the Safariland over the HKS versions. They are more positive, the rounds more stable, and load with a push.
I have a couple of revolvers that use moon clips, and while they are faster, the clips tend to be fragile and easily rendered unusable, if you arent careful, and even if you are. It doesnt take much to cause problems.
I prefer the Safariland over the HKS versions. They are more positive, the rounds more stable, and load with a push.
I have a couple of revolvers that use moon clips, and while they are faster, the clips tend to be fragile and easily rendered unusable, if you arent careful, and even if you are. It doesnt take much to cause problems.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
I have never been in a high stress situation and needed to reload my revolver.
I do practice reloads with speed loaders at the range, but one cannot duplicate a high stress situation at a public range.
I have tried Speed Strips. They are okay but slower.
I have read where guys will use a 1911 mag to carry .38 Special to feed one at a time into the chambers of their revolver but I have not tried this.
I do not own a gun that can utilize Moon Clips and have very limited experience with them. I have friends that do and on more than one occasion I have seen them fumble with loaded moon clips that were bent trying to get them to work. They had carried the loaded moon clip and somehow bent it.
When I lived in the country I was just fine carrying my S&W 442 with a couple of HKS speed loaders.
Since moving to California I prefer my Glock 26.
Something else I have done is carry my 442 in an ankle holster and my model 60 Pro in a OWB holster and two speed-loaders in my pocket. That gave me 2 guns with a total of 20 rounds. That method doesn’t work well in hotter weather.
I do practice reloads with speed loaders at the range, but one cannot duplicate a high stress situation at a public range.
I have tried Speed Strips. They are okay but slower.
I have read where guys will use a 1911 mag to carry .38 Special to feed one at a time into the chambers of their revolver but I have not tried this.
I do not own a gun that can utilize Moon Clips and have very limited experience with them. I have friends that do and on more than one occasion I have seen them fumble with loaded moon clips that were bent trying to get them to work. They had carried the loaded moon clip and somehow bent it.
When I lived in the country I was just fine carrying my S&W 442 with a couple of HKS speed loaders.
Since moving to California I prefer my Glock 26.
Something else I have done is carry my 442 in an ankle holster and my model 60 Pro in a OWB holster and two speed-loaders in my pocket. That gave me 2 guns with a total of 20 rounds. That method doesn’t work well in hotter weather.
Moon clips were designed for and work best with short stubby cartridges with round profiles. The 45 ACP is the perfect example of such. But it comes in an N frame.
J frames are usually cut for rimmed cartridges and those tend to be longer and much fussier about using moonclips. The reason is the is NO standard for the groove on a rimmed cartridge case like there is on a rimless case.
If you want the J frame, speedloaders or speed strips are the better option.
Kevin
J frames are usually cut for rimmed cartridges and those tend to be longer and much fussier about using moonclips. The reason is the is NO standard for the groove on a rimmed cartridge case like there is on a rimless case.
If you want the J frame, speedloaders or speed strips are the better option.
Kevin
I want a 357 capable wheelgun even tho I really have no intension of using 357s. Why?
Because I’d like to use hot 38s without concern for pressure. I reload and one of my favorite loads is a 158 grain bullet on top of 7 grains of Unique. That qualifies as a +P+ load but is mild for any 357. Call it a creampuff 357 but definitely not a creampuff 38.
The all steel weight will make this more comfortable at the range. And I’m also a big fan of 3” barrels. They seem to just handle better than sub-3” barrels.
Currently, at the top of my list:
PERFORMANCE CENTER PRO SERIES MODEL 60
Last edited:
The Evangelist Cowboy
Member
For a SNUB nose revolver I prefer Speedloaders and I prefer them be safari land. Someone said you cannot replicate on the range what will happen under stress. That is not what I have been taught, I have always heard you will devolve to your base level of training. If I were you I would take a training class specifically geared towards the snub nose. Their are a couple near me actually that do this. If your carrying a larger revolver that's where moonclips really shine
Ohen Cepel
Member
OP,
Understood. Lot to be said for that option given your use case. I like that PC60 but I have an issue with those locks that prevents me from buying one. Sadly, they don't seem to make that one without the lock. They do make other J-frame now without it but they are all the shorter barrelled ones.
Understood. Lot to be said for that option given your use case. I like that PC60 but I have an issue with those locks that prevents me from buying one. Sadly, they don't seem to make that one without the lock. They do make other J-frame now without it but they are all the shorter barrelled ones.
WisBorn
Contributing Member
I like speed strips for there compact size. If you start carrying a bulk speed loader the j frame is not as compact. Of course where/how you carry the revolver and speed loader makes a difference. Season also makes a difference. During the cooler seasons in Wisconsin; I would throw a speed loader in a coat pocket. Summer in SC; shorts and a Tshirt a speed strip is easier.
Sneakshot92
Member
This is my chosen route for revolver carry. Load two and get back in the fight if needed.
Sneakshot92
Member
I reload as well but I make my hot 38 loads in 357 cases to avoid getting a few mixed in and end up in my dad's model 10 when we go shooting.
There is no evidence that reloads in a civilian lethal-force incident have happened, ever. Will you be the first?
I am a big fan of moon-clips. Here's how to make them work: buy 40 of them. Buy a BMT mooner/demooner tool. Load them all up. Now you can go to classes and shoot all day. You'll get tons of practice for that rare contingency just in case, and when the Glock boys are busy pumping their uplula's during the breaks, you can hang around drinking water and chatting about how you think 5 is enough.
I am a big fan of moon-clips. Here's how to make them work: buy 40 of them. Buy a BMT mooner/demooner tool. Load them all up. Now you can go to classes and shoot all day. You'll get tons of practice for that rare contingency just in case, and when the Glock boys are busy pumping their uplula's during the breaks, you can hang around drinking water and chatting about how you think 5 is enough.
At the beginning of each break, you can pick up your clips at the same time everyone else is picking up their empty magazines. If you reload, you've got your brass. The autoloader guys will have to wait 'til the end of the day to chase theirs to the four corners of the range with a squeegee and if they didn't mark each one with a sharpie ( http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1515-A ) so they could sort them individually, they'll have to be content with their share of mixed brass.
This is true. The solution is you need to match the moon clip to the brass you're using. Go to TK Custom and select the correct clips for your brass from their chart. If you just use the TK clips that S&W includes, they will likely be loose and floppy unless you happen to use the brand of brass with the fattest grooves. Using the correct clips, the longest 357 Magnum is held with the correct amount of "wiggle." You want some wiggle and not for the cartridges to be totally stiff so the cartridges will self-align with the chamber holes and drop in. If the clips held them totally rigidly, you would likely have to push them into the cylinder instead of just dropping.
https://tkcustom.com/resources/faq-s
Last edited:
bdickens
Member
I don't think that obviates the value of practicing them, however.
One can confidently assert that one is aware of no such evidence, but that's it.
My reason fo not carrying them is that I cannot imagine being able to use them successfully in the time I would have in a lawful self defense encounter.
MedWheeler
Member
I trained heavily with, and carried for a long time, the HKS speedloaders, but have done neither in decades. I think I'd pick it back up pretty quickly if I tried, probably faster than learning a new tool, and my gut has just enough overhang that carrying one on the belt would not be an issue.
mcb
Member
I am a little late the thread... As most know I am a big fan of moonclips. That said, in my experience J-frames do not seem to benefit as much from moonclips as much as the bigger revolvers. Things are just too small and tight to run a J-frame the way you run a bigger revolver. That said I still use moonclips in my J-frame.
Moonclips have the advantage of clearing nearly all grips something that cannot be said for many speedloaders.
Moonclips are more fragile than a speedloader but there are mitigation such as the moonclip pocket protectors in the picture above. This does cost a bit of speed but make the moonclip very robust in the pocket.
Speedloaders if they clear your grips are fine but they are bulkier in the pocket. I like the push to release version a lot better than twist to release. One less thing to fumble.
Speedstrips are nice and flat/compact for convenient carry but are slow relative to the other two methods.
I always load my J-frame revolver with a moonclip even if I am carrying a different method for the reload. The moonclip helps ensure that all the round get ejected together in the unlikely case of a required reload. This is helpful with snubbies that have short ejectors as the total mass will help pull that one sticking case out and on guns with full length ejectors the moonclip ensures that a case cannot get stuck under the star.
Moonclips have the advantage of clearing nearly all grips something that cannot be said for many speedloaders.
Moonclips are more fragile than a speedloader but there are mitigation such as the moonclip pocket protectors in the picture above. This does cost a bit of speed but make the moonclip very robust in the pocket.
Speedloaders if they clear your grips are fine but they are bulkier in the pocket. I like the push to release version a lot better than twist to release. One less thing to fumble.
Speedstrips are nice and flat/compact for convenient carry but are slow relative to the other two methods.
I always load my J-frame revolver with a moonclip even if I am carrying a different method for the reload. The moonclip helps ensure that all the round get ejected together in the unlikely case of a required reload. This is helpful with snubbies that have short ejectors as the total mass will help pull that one sticking case out and on guns with full length ejectors the moonclip ensures that a case cannot get stuck under the star.
Oh, you will certainly practice them if you practice at all. With only five rounds, you will practice them three times more frequently than the double-stack auto guys.
I suppose you could practice them without haste. That's why I recommend the 40 moon clips. Because if you get a couple moonclips or a speedloader or two, you will practice it once or twice and then find yourself fumbling around with loose rounds to load them again. It's a waste of range time and especially of costlier and more limited class time. I bought 10-packs of clips for $7 per clip. Factory magazines are more than four times as costly, and even aftermarket magazines are more than twice as costly. So for the same cost I get at least two to four times more practice reloading before I have to fiddle with cartridges. Now if your goal is just to shoot, the autoloader guys will argue they get two to three times as many rounds per magazine. It's true. They might only need 18 magazines to shoot as many rounds as my 40 clips (mine hold seven), but I practice reloading at least twice as often.
Notice that I don't practice reloads more often because the gun holds less. You can load a pistol with one round in the magazine and practice reloads after every shot. I practice reloads more often because I have more clips.
I take it you don’t approve of a J-frame for SD? Also, from what I understand, the likelihood of a shootout going beyond 3 fired rounds on the side of the guy acting to defend himself is very rare as well. Not too many Heat scenarios in the real world.
Last edited:
I’ve gone in the other direction. I’ve begun experiencing with Starline’s 38 Shot Colt brass to develop SD rounds. I noticed the guys at ICORE load really hot rounds for this brass. If you look at the case capacity of the 38 Short and the 9mm is slightly in favor of the 38 Short.
I called Starline and asked if their 38 Short brass could handle 9mm+P pressures. Their ballistician’s answer: absolutely!
I don't disapprove at all. J frame was the first CCW I had and I was devoted to them (had three of them) for some time -- until I tried large revolvers which I previously believed were impossible to EDC concealed, simply because it felt awkward when I first put one on and the idea of open carry completely turned me off. After a little determination, I got over the awkwardness and conceded to wear my shirt untucked. I never wore it untucked before. The reason I prefer large revolvers isn't because of the higher capacity or the "moar pwr!' machoness. On the contrary, with a longer barrel, wimpier loads can be effective. With the heavier gun, any load feels wimpier. I can put on a wimpy red dot geezer-sight. The double-action pull weight is wimpier. Basically, I realized that hollywood had it all backwards. J frames are for the total macho studs, and the big Pythons, L and N frames are for wimps that want a gun to be easy to shoot. I like easy to shoot.
- Status
