Best caliber for a (very) long distance rifle: smaller, faster vs larger slower bullet

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Euro-Guns

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Let's say you're planning on building a rifle for very long distance shooting, and you've picked a specific model of rifle. So now you that you've chosen the base platform you're left with deciding on the caliber to build it on. You can choose everything from very high velocity smaller calibers such as those in 6mm and 6.5mm to lower velocity larger calibers such as those in .30 and .338. You also have some money left in your budget to buy an accurate laser rangefinder and a handheld weather station for measuring windspeed and direction, the necessary tools of the trade when you want to shoot at very long distances.

When shooting long distances there are two variables which affect where your shot will end up landing and which are indirectly correlated to the caliber being used; bullet drop and bullet drift. The smaller calibers will have less bullet drop but more bullet drift, and the larger calibers will have more bullet drop but less bullet drift. However one of those variables is very predictable (bullet drop) while the other (bullet drift) much less so. After all, the amount of bullet drop is a very stable variable and exclusively based on the distance to the target. But the amount of bullet drift can vary wildly along the bullet's trajectory, especially with very long shots because both the wind speed and direction can also vary wildly along that trajectory, and you can't calculate that into the equation because they're impossible to accurately measure or know. You can guestimate it at best.

Seeing as you know the components you're using to handload with, you can use them to find out the variables you will need for making calculations of the ballistic trajectory. You'll need the ballistic coefficient of the bullet being used, the muzzle velocity of your handload, the altitude, air pressure and temperature at which you're shooting, the distance to your target, the distance between your scope and barrel, and of course the wind direction and wind speed. That's all that is needed for calculating the trajectory to your target and the adjustments you'll need to make to get your shot on target. Everyone has a smartphone these days, and they're all equipped with sensors like GPS and barometers with which you can find your altitude and air pressure, and very effective ballistic calculator apps can be downloaded for free, such as Strelok.

So my question is this, assuming you have an accurate laser rangefinder and handheld weather station, a ballistic calculator app on your phone, and a specific platform with a specified action length you're planning to build your long range rifle on, wouldn't a large(r) caliber be the much better candidate over a small(er) caliber? After all the bullet drop of a large(r) caliber can be easily adjusted for and factored into the calculation with the help of the laser rangefinder and ballistic calculator, while the bullet drift of a small(er) caliber much less so, especially at very long ranges.
 
Euro-Guns said:
Let's say you're planning on building a rifle for very long distance shooting, and you've picked a specific model of rifle. So now you that you've chosen the base platform you're left with deciding on the caliber to build it on. You can choose everything from very high velocity smaller calibers such as those in 6mm and 6.5mm to lower velocity larger calibers such as those in .30 and .338. You also have some money left in your budget to buy an accurate laser rangefinder and a handheld weather station for measuring windspeed and direction, the necessary tools of the trade when you want to shoot at very long distances.

When shooting long distances there are two variables which affect where your shot will end up landing and which are indirectly correlated to the caliber being used; bullet drop and bullet drift. The smaller calibers will have less bullet drop but more bullet drift, and the larger calibers will have more bullet drop but less bullet drift. However one of those variables is very predictable (bullet drop) while the other (bullet drift) much less so. After all, the amount of bullet drop is a very stable variable and exclusively based on the distance to the target. But the amount of bullet drift can vary wildly along the bullet's trajectory, especially with very long shots because both the wind speed and direction can also vary wildly along that trajectory, and you can't calculate that into the equation because they're impossible to accurately measure or know. You can guestimate it at best.

Seeing as you know the components you're using to handload with, you can use them to find out the variables you will need for making calculations of the ballistic trajectory. You'll need the ballistic coefficient of the bullet being used, the muzzle velocity of your handload, the altitude, air pressure and temperature at which you're shooting, the distance to your target, the distance between your scope and barrel, and of course the wind direction and wind speed. That's all that is needed for calculating the trajectory to your target and the adjustments you'll need to make to get your shot on target. Everyone has a smartphone these days, and they're all equipped with sensors like GPS and barometers with which you can find your altitude and air pressure, and very effective ballistic calculator apps can be downloaded for free, such as Strelok.

So my question is this, assuming you have an accurate laser rangefinder and handheld weather station, a ballistic calculator app on your phone, and a specific platform with a specified action length you're planning to build your long range rifle on, wouldn't a large(r) caliber be the much better candidate over a small(er) caliber? After all the bullet drop of a large(r) caliber can be easily adjusted for and factored into the calculation with the help of the laser rangefinder and ballistic calculator, while the bullet drift of a small(er) caliber much less so, especially at very long ranges.
Click to expand...
Let's also say we're factoring in recoil and ask how far out you're wanting to shoot, a 7stw running 162s at high speed do it for me.
 
That's unfortunately something I lack the knowledge about, I have no clue whether recoil only affects the shooter's experience or if it also has an impact on the accuracy of one's shot? Logically a larger caliber for a given case/action length is going to give a higher recoil compared to a smaller caliber because with larger calibers you're also going to be shooting heavier bullets, so if recoil does affect where your shot lands then a large caliber is going to have a bigger negative effect compared to a smaller caliber. But would an effective muzzle break be able to reduce the recoil far enough to the point that it has little impact on the accuracy of the rifle?

Regarding the planned distances, I was thinking of at least 700-1000 yards, enough of a distances that the bullet drop would be considerable with larger calibers, and bullet drift would be considerable in windy conditions with smaller calibers.
 
Depends if you’re shooting prarie dogs or elk or paper or steel.

Personally I don’t like recoil and don’t shoot hard kicking rifles well. So I’d take the highest BC, highest velocity, and heaviest bullet and put it in a 30lb rifle with a brake.
 
High recoil is fine. For one shot...
Not so much for learning how to shoot a long ways, as it takes actual rounds to do it. Recoil doesn’t affect accuracy, it affects if shooter can take it more than once.

Longer distances require larger bullets. But a thousand is not there yet. Seven hundred is about the limit for me and 75 grain bullets from a .223 Remington. Competitors use it out to a thousand all the time.

I think you have a firm grasp of it. A muzzle break on a .223 let’s you see impacts at five hundred yards.

However, there is a reason the “King of Two Miles” shooters use the calibers they do. (Hint: None of them are shooting a Six Creed.:))

“All things being equal, and they never ever are, a bigger bullet is a better one.”
 
This is a great question but the answer will likely be contingent on how you're planning to shoot. The trend seems to be as follows:

Known distance shooters (such as F-Class) very often pick the most precise and highest BC bullets that are suitable to their chosen cartridge types. This is due to the fact that wind and shooting skill are the major variables.

Unknown distance shooters (PRS and Hunters) often must account for ranging errors and will usually pick a bullet that has an acceptable BC for expected target range but will look for maximum velocity over BC. The extra velocity in this case gives flatter trajectory and first round hits are what counts.

This is a generalization based on what I've seen at matches so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Im no long range shooter, im im a middle range plinker.....

If were were talking pure wants in terms of cartridge, bullet, rifle, then I want a heavy, long gun, firing a heavy long bullet, at DAYUM!

I can use all the help i can get, so a bc in the .7+ range, at a velocity nearing 3000 fps is about where i wanna be. Id build the gun around those specs, and make it comfortable and steady.

after i paid of that that personal loan.....
Then id build a baby one in something smaller, and spend a few thousand on ammo to practice with....or maybe id do that first....probably do that first.
 
I would think that, under theoretical conditions, it wouldn't matter, as long as you range was known and your loads precisely metered. But, given wind, a fatter bullet (with more volume/surface area) would ultimately be more accurate. Of course, if you are shooting at an unknown distance, velocity gives more practical accuracy. So, you want a heavier slug moving faster. But that is the path to shoulder pain.
 
Euro-Guns said:
That's unfortunately something I lack the knowledge about, I have no clue whether recoil only affects the shooter's experience or if it also has an impact on the accuracy of one's shot? Logically a larger caliber for a given case/action length is going to give a higher recoil compared to a smaller caliber because with larger calibers you're also going to be shooting heavier bullets, so if recoil does affect where your shot lands then a large caliber is going to have a bigger negative effect compared to a smaller caliber. But would an effective muzzle break be able to reduce the recoil far enough to the point that it has little impact on the accuracy of the rifle?

Regarding the planned distances, I was thinking of at least 700-1000 yards, enough of a distances that the bullet drop would be considerable with larger calibers, and bullet drift would be considerable in windy conditions with smaller calibers.
Click to expand...
So, running my 162s at 3200 fps at 1000 yards, there's only a drift of 48 inches with a 10mph 90degree wind (yes ONLY), roughly the same recoil as the 300 win mag pushing 180s. At a mile, velocity is still 1230fps. With that recoil level I can drop prone and shoot till I'm reminded to go home by the wife.
My brother's .338 win mag on the other hand......I can drill the bull all day, but I stop myself after about 40-60 rounds. These are both hunting weight rifles. The .22-250 with a fast twist (ai is even better) or .224 valk will get you to 1000, for more extreme performance the creed boys, the prc, and (my personal heartache) the 6.5 leopard with 156 Bergers will blow your mind too (b.c. .679 at about 29-2950). If I have to take a beating I better get SOMETHING out of it, and for a distance gun, better plan on more weight and a suppressor, brakes help, but they piss off your spotter. Check the numbers in a ballistic calculator, go run the biggest gun any of your friends can loan you for a couple hours, then the next morning, decide how big of a bullet you really want for only 700-1000yds!
 
Sorry for not having been more specific on some of the details. I was thinking of a rifle built around a short action, so cartridge lengths comparable to .308 Winchester, and an expected accuracy capable of consistently hitting a 15"x15" target, preferably even a 10"x10" target. Seeing as only calibers comparable in case length to .308 Win are being considered, I would assume that even the biggest such calibers would still be manageable with an effective muzzle brake, especially for someone who is already used to shooting .308 Winchester.

Also, to clarify a bit more, my question assumes shooting targets at variable distances ranging anywhere from between 700 and 1000 yards, but a laser rangefinder is available to range the target so it would be known before taking the shot and would be used to put into the ballistic calculator to calculate the amount of bullet drop and the necessary scope adjustments. The reason why I had a range of between 700 and 1000 yards in mind is because at such distances you can still use a wide range of calibers, from anywhere between .22 to .338, while for ranges of 1200-1500 yards the smaller calibers are already unfeasible.
 
Euro-Guns said:
Sorry for not having been more specific on some of the details. I was thinking of a rifle built around a short action, so cartridge lengths comparable to .308 Winchester, and an expected accuracy capable of consistently hitting a 15"x15" target, preferably even a 10"x10" target. Seeing as only calibers comparable in case length to .308 Win are being considered, I would assume that even the biggest such calibers would still be manageable with an effective muzzle brake, especially for someone who is already used to shooting .308 Winchester.

Also, to clarify a bit more, my question assumes shooting targets at variable distances ranging anywhere from between 700 and 1000 yards, but a laser rangefinder is available to range the target so it would be known before taking the shot and would be used to put into the ballistic calculator to calculate the amount of bullet drop and the necessary scope adjustments. The reason why I had a range of between 700 and 1000 yards in mind is because at such distances you can still use a wide range of calibers, from anywhere between .22 to .338, while for ranges of 1200-1500 yards the smaller calibers are already unfeasible.
Click to expand...

Given the action length consideration, and expected distance 6-7mm running a heavy for caliber vld at 2650-2800. Again ill take all they help i can get.
 
Euro-Guns said:
Sorry for not having been more specific on some of the details. I was thinking of a rifle built around a short action, so cartridge lengths comparable to .308 Winchester, and an expected accuracy capable of consistently hitting a 15"x15" target, preferably even a 10"x10" target. Seeing as only calibers comparable in case length to .308 Win are being considered, I would assume that even the biggest such calibers would still be manageable with an effective muzzle brake, especially for someone who is already used to shooting .308 Winchester.

Also, to clarify a bit more, my question assumes shooting targets at variable distances ranging anywhere from between 700 and 1000 yards, but a laser rangefinder is available to range the target so it would be known before taking the shot and would be used to put into the ballistic calculator to calculate the amount of bullet drop and the necessary scope adjustments. The reason why I had a range of between 700 and 1000 yards in mind is because at such distances you can still use a wide range of calibers, from anywhere between .22 to .338, while for ranges of 1200-1500 yards the smaller calibers are already unfeasible.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure you'd notice a 6 cm running a 108 eld a lot less than whatever you crank outta a .308..... I'm not saying that the .30 won't work, I'm saying, yes you'll notice the difference and a .22-28 caliber is not as much of a handicap as you would think.
 
You want to be able to shoot the highest BC bullets. There are some very good bullets in 6.5mm, 7mm, and 338. There are a few decent choices in 30 caliber and 243/6mm. Not many choices in other calibers. One of those calibers will be the most efficient, but to get the high BC's you have to go heavy for caliber. You run into the problem with recoil, and having enough case capacity to get the speeds needed.

For example the highest BC bullets in 30 caliber are 215-230 gr. You can't shoot them fast enough from 308, or really even 30-06 to be useful. You really need one of the 300 magnums. Same with 338, the best bullets are 250-300 gr. You need a 338 Lapua magnum to shoot them fast enough to help.

The reason the 6.5 CM has become so popular is that the best bullets are in the 140-150 gr weight range and you can shoot them fast enough from a very light recoiling 6.5CM rifle.

Long distance shooters don't even consider bullet drop. When shooting at known ranges the sights can always be adjusted for the range. And most targets are shot at known ranges. Even hunters now have accurate range finders and the ability to compensate for drop. The thing you're looking for is the range where the bullet has slowed to the point where it is no longer stable.

A 308 with most loads starts to run out of gas at about 800 yards. With hot loads and long barrels you can squeeze 1000 out of it. The 30-06 is good for about 200 more. The better 6.5mm, 7mm, 300 Magnum, and 338 magnum loads are good for a mile or more. And the 6.5 CM does it with much less recoil and cost.

The others may shoot a little flatter and if hunting hit harder with heavier bullets. But for punching paper at long range the 6.5 CM has a lot going for it. It is also big enough for most big game at normal hunting ranges.
 
Euro-Guns said:
Let's say you're planning on building a rifle for very long distance shooting, and you've picked a specific model of rifle. So now you that you've chosen the base platform you're left with deciding on the caliber to build it on. You can choose everything from very high velocity smaller calibers such as those in 6mm and 6.5mm to lower velocity larger calibers such as those in .30 and .338. You also have some money left in your budget to buy an accurate laser rangefinder and a handheld weather station for measuring windspeed and direction, the necessary tools of the trade when you want to shoot at very long distances.

When shooting long distances there are two variables which affect where your shot will end up landing and which are indirectly correlated to the caliber being used; bullet drop and bullet drift. The smaller calibers will have less bullet drop but more bullet drift, and the larger calibers will have more bullet drop but less bullet drift. However one of those variables is very predictable (bullet drop) while the other (bullet drift) much less so. After all, the amount of bullet drop is a very stable variable and exclusively based on the distance to the target. But the amount of bullet drift can vary wildly along the bullet's trajectory, especially with very long shots because both the wind speed and direction can also vary wildly along that trajectory, and you can't calculate that into the equation because they're impossible to accurately measure or know. You can guestimate it at best.

Seeing as you know the components you're using to handload with, you can use them to find out the variables you will need for making calculations of the ballistic trajectory. You'll need the ballistic coefficient of the bullet being used, the muzzle velocity of your handload, the altitude, air pressure and temperature at which you're shooting, the distance to your target, the distance between your scope and barrel, and of course the wind direction and wind speed. That's all that is needed for calculating the trajectory to your target and the adjustments you'll need to make to get your shot on target. Everyone has a smartphone these days, and they're all equipped with sensors like GPS and barometers with which you can find your altitude and air pressure, and very effective ballistic calculator apps can be downloaded for free, such as Strelok.

So my question is this, assuming you have an accurate laser rangefinder and handheld weather station, a ballistic calculator app on your phone, and a specific platform with a specified action length you're planning to build your long range rifle on, wouldn't a large(r) caliber be the much better candidate over a small(er) caliber? After all the bullet drop of a large(r) caliber can be easily adjusted for and factored into the calculation with the help of the laser rangefinder and ballistic calculator, while the bullet drift of a small(er) caliber much less so, especially at very long ranges.
Click to expand...

For very long range, look here:

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/07/05/what-the-pros-use-king-2-miles-edition/
 
Yeah I know that for the ultra long range (1-2 mile) you'll need very large case capacity and calibers in a minimum of .30 caliber and preferably even .338 and bigger. There's actually an ultra long distance shooters association in my home country where they do up to 2 miles, and they have a comparable webpage with the kind of gear and set-ups they use. However those distances are a lot larger than what I was wondering about. And what I was also trying to ask is whether my theory holds true, how seeing as bullet drop is much easier to calculate and compensate for while bullet drift is much harder, that for a certain case length the larger calibers would a much better choice instead of going for the smaller calibers with that same case length. So my question was more to verify whether what I hypothesized/imagined was really true, or if there were other factors I forgot about why larger calibers might be less of a good choice.

It's been answered pretty well though, and from what I gathered there are indeed a couple other factors involved that I had not thought about. So to recap what I gather from everyone's answers, the medium calibers (6.5 and 7mm) are the best options because they generally have the best bullet selection for a moderate case length cartridge such as those comparable to .243 and .308 Winchester. The very high ballistic coefficient bullets in .30 caliber and above simply need a much more powerful cartridge than one of .308 Win. case length in order to reach a high enough muzzle velocity.

For my own rig I do indeed plan to use a 6.5 or 7mm based caliber, though I haven't made up my mind yet whether that will be a regular .308 Win type cartridge, a short magnum, or a short magnum wildcat. Several of my top 3 of candidates have already been mentioned, they are in no particular order 6.5 CM, 7mm WSM, and 6.5 Leopard. The 6.5 CM has slightly less reach but more rounds of them will fit in a given size magazine, and seeing as I haven't decided yet between a semi-auto or bolt-action I'll still leave that undecided for now.
 
Euro-Guns said:
Yeah I know that for the ultra long range (1-2 mile) you'll need very large case capacity and calibers in a minimum of .30 caliber and preferably even .338 and bigger. There's actually an ultra long distance shooters association in my home country where they do up to 2 miles, and they have a comparable webpage with the kind of gear and set-ups they use. However those distances are a lot larger than what I was wondering about. And what I was also trying to ask is whether my theory holds true, how seeing as bullet drop is much easier to calculate and compensate for while bullet drift is much harder, that for a certain case length the larger calibers would a much better choice instead of going for the smaller calibers with that same case length. So my question was more to verify whether what I hypothesized/imagined was really true, or if there were other factors I forgot about why larger calibers might be less of a good choice.

It's been answered pretty well though, and from what I gathered there are indeed a couple other factors involved that I had not thought about. So to recap what I gather from everyone's answers, the medium calibers (6.5 and 7mm) are the best options because they generally have the best bullet selection for a moderate case length cartridge such as those comparable to .243 and .308 Winchester. The very high ballistic coefficient bullets in .30 caliber and above simply need a much more powerful cartridge than one of .308 Win. case length in order to reach a high enough muzzle velocity.

For my own rig I do indeed plan to use a 6.5 or 7mm based caliber, though I haven't made up my mind yet whether that will be a regular .308 Win type cartridge, a short magnum, or a short magnum wildcat. Several of my top 3 of candidates have already been mentioned, they are in no particular order 6.5 CM, 7mm WSM, and 6.5 Leopard. The 6.5 CM has slightly less reach but more rounds of them will fit in a given size magazine, and seeing as I haven't decided yet between a semi-auto or bolt-action I'll still leave that undecided for now.
Click to expand...
If barrel life is anything you're concerned about starting up, start with the 6.5 creed, you'll also have less recoil to contend with as you hone your skills.
 
Euro-Guns said:
and calibers in a minimum of .30 caliber and preferably even .338 and bigger.
Click to expand...
No one is using a 30 for two miles. The top five were using .375 CheyTac, .416 Barrett and other 50 BMG necked-down wildcats.

We went from Extreme Long Range to a thousand yards with a .308 case.

For that, 6, 6.5, 7 or 30. Pick one, carry on. Neither is going to be easier than the others. They all have drop, they all drift. No long shooting sport negates both.(Short range benchrest, maybe?)

What are the rules for the competition? That may make the choice for you.
 
If you want long range then you have to chose a gun that fires bullets with a high ballistic coefficient. 40 to 50 cal rifles have stupid high BCs. But you probably don't want the murderous recoil and the crushing poverty that ensues when feeding gun like that.
Anything 6mm to 7mm is pretty pretty good I think it peaks with the 6.5 or 6.8 bullets in small bore stuff.
For big bore 338 has good BC the gun and ammo hit your shoulder and wallet pretty hard, but nothing like a 50.
 
Demi-human said:
No one is using a 30 for two miles. The top five were using .375 CheyTac, .416 Barrett and other 50 BMG necked-down wildcats.

We went from Extreme Long Range to a thousand yards with a .308 case.

For that, 6, 6.5, 7 or 30. Pick one, carry on. Neither is going to be easier than the others. They all have drop, they all drift. No long shooting sport negates both.(Short range benchrest, maybe?)

What are the rules for the competition? That may make the choice for you.
Click to expand...

The problem is that we still don't know what "very long range" is.
 
jbm said:
The problem is that we still don't know what "very long range" is.
Click to expand...
Sort of.
Euro-Guns said:
The reason why I had a range of between 700 and 1000 yards in mind is because at such distances you can still use a wide range of calibers, from anywhere between .22 to .338, while for ranges of 1200-1500 yards the smaller calibers are already unfeasible.
Click to expand...
Euro-Guns said:
For my own rig I do indeed plan to use a 6.5 or 7mm based caliber, though I haven't made up my mind yet whether that will be a regular .308 Win type cartridge, a short magnum, or a short magnum wildcat.
Click to expand...

These are the confounding statements for me. Nothing is congruent with the title. Though I realize it may be from the differing locales between us.

To me Long Range is 800-1,000+ yards.
Capable with most Short Action cartridges. The most difference between them being the recoil and bullet commodity price.
AR magazine length cartridges can do that, even at .22 caliber, even out to 1500.

Extreme Long Range takes over somewhere after that, but it’s kind of fuzzy, not common and expensive. And probably not a short action.
 
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