AR10 in 243 Win....why so few?
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Newtosavage
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Because the .243 has been marketed as a caliber for "women and kids" and no tactical operator would be caught dead with a "black gun" in .243.
(kidding...calm down...)I disagree that the .308 is better at long distances than the .243, and how many people use their AR for long distance shooting anyway?
My guess on the .243 AR-10 question is that there isn't enough cheap .243 blasting ammo out there to satisfy the semi-auto crowd. However, .308 always offers the option of fairly inexpensive FMJ for a quick and affordable blasting fix.
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NoHillForAHighStepper
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My opinion is based on what I've witnessed. Will a 243 kill a deer? Sure. Will it do it expediently? Not unless you hit neck/head. On those tiny east Texas blacktails, it is probably really good. But they aren't much bigger than my German Shepherd.
Personally, where I hunt, the 243 doesn't carry enough energy downrange. I have taken muleys anywhere from 50 to 350 yards. At 50 yards it would work fine. At 350, you might as well get your tracking glasses out...
I've never had to track a muley with a .243, but we can blame the arrow to save face.
sarduy
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I respect your opinion but I strongly disagree. There is nothing that the 243 can do that the 308 cant do. The 243 can never be shot as quiet as a subsonic 300blk out of an AR and 243 is heavier than 556 so if we are looking at things the way i see it the 243 is the mediocre cartridge. The 243 is a very good round for it purposes just like the 556 , 300blk and 308.
But to answer your question, the reason why few are chambered in 243 is because 6.5 Creedmoor is better
cdb1
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You have obviously never hunted deer in Texas. First of all Texas has whitetail and mule deer that are indigenous. The closest blacktails would probably be California. If we want to get really technical, blacktails are a subspecies of mule deer but mule deer live in the opposite part of East Texas, namely the Trans-Pecos and Panhandle, so you’d still be wrong. The smallest deer I’ve seen are also in the hill country, not East Texas.
“Will a 243 kill a deer? Sure. Will it do it expediently? Not unless you hit neck/head.” This also makes me wonder if you have any real experience or are just repeating what you have heard or read.
Skylerbone
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My thought is that if you’re going large form factor, you’re wanting all-in. As little as I care for .308 and as much as I enjoy .243 I’d be hard pressed to carry all that extra bulk without maximizing gains over 5.56
I hope with the continued press for innovation in the large frames that we might see a third standard emerge like POF that slims down these AR middling chamberings into rifles we want at reasonable prices. Selling components, even as barreled uppers, would be a good start
I hope with the continued press for innovation in the large frames that we might see a third standard emerge like POF that slims down these AR middling chamberings into rifles we want at reasonable prices. Selling components, even as barreled uppers, would be a good start
cougar1717
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Exactly!
How many people want a heavy AR-10/LR308 frame in a caliber that needs a 22"+ barrel? For comparison, anyone who has shot a 22"plus AR15 knows how unwieldy and barrel heavy they can be. (I get that 243 needs the large frame.) Add up the weight of the LR308 upper and lower receivers. I'm sure a 243 LR308 doesn't kick much but may require a bipod to shoot (like the photos on this thread show). If someone chooses a short barrel 243 in the 16-18" range, the velocity really drops since 243 is overbore and needs a longer barrel to maximize the powder capacity for the bore size.
Reference these specs:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019473220?pid=493852
Considering where the sweet spot needs to be to get the performance out of a 243, I could see why people would choose the larger bores over than the 243 LR308.
bushmaster1313
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I have wondered for sometime why I got this DPMS in .243:
Two reasons why so few out there:
1) It's too big and heavy compared to a 5.56 and the ammo is much more expensive.
2) If you want a big heavy semi-auto rifle, get one in .308, just like almost everyone else.
On the other hand, it does look good in the early Fall out on the back porch.
Two reasons why so few out there:
1) It's too big and heavy compared to a 5.56 and the ammo is much more expensive.
2) If you want a big heavy semi-auto rifle, get one in .308, just like almost everyone else.
On the other hand, it does look good in the early Fall out on the back porch.
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daniel craig
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Demand drives supply. What few there are aren’t being bought up in any great numbers so there’s no incentive for anyone to make more.
Also ammo cost. Nobody makes 243 in bulk like they do 308 and 223/5.56. As such ammo cost to feed it wouldn’t be as attractive as a 308 option.
Also ammo cost. Nobody makes 243 in bulk like they do 308 and 223/5.56. As such ammo cost to feed it wouldn’t be as attractive as a 308 option.
cdb1
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I’ll swap a Weatherby Vanguard S2 Sporter .243 for it.
jmorris
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It’s old, it’s so old it doesn’t even use the metric system to identify itself. Not to mention “.243 Winchester” what are we riding pony’s around shooting stuff? You’d sell a lot more of them if you put a cooler headstamp on the case, even if that’s the only thing you changed...
If ypou can find a barrel maker that will make the barrel and the size of the cartridge will fit the action (243 Win will fit an AR-10), then you should be able to build the rifle as one sees fit.
I've built 204 Ruger and 17 Remington AR-15's, in part because the barrels were available for purchase. 222 Remington and 222 Remington Magnum are possible if the AR-15 if a barrel maker is willing to chamber a 22 caliber AR-15 barrel in the cartridge. Other cartridges can be adapted as well, I have a 22x6.8 AR-15 as well.
The same should be the case for AR-10 barrels.
A side note, tuning of the gas system will be necessary if the cartridge is not popular in the platform desired. With 204 Ruger, I had make adjustments to the gas system. While an adjustable gas block would do the trick, I made the buffer heavier than what is considered "standard" for 223 Remington. It made the 204 Ruger function reliably.
Similar concerns around the gas system would be required for an AR-10 rifle with a non-mainsteam cartridge in the AR-10.
P.S. My 26 inch barrel, 204 Ruger AR-15 is used for prairie dog shooting.
I've built 204 Ruger and 17 Remington AR-15's, in part because the barrels were available for purchase. 222 Remington and 222 Remington Magnum are possible if the AR-15 if a barrel maker is willing to chamber a 22 caliber AR-15 barrel in the cartridge. Other cartridges can be adapted as well, I have a 22x6.8 AR-15 as well.
The same should be the case for AR-10 barrels.
A side note, tuning of the gas system will be necessary if the cartridge is not popular in the platform desired. With 204 Ruger, I had make adjustments to the gas system. While an adjustable gas block would do the trick, I made the buffer heavier than what is considered "standard" for 223 Remington. It made the 204 Ruger function reliably.
Similar concerns around the gas system would be required for an AR-10 rifle with a non-mainsteam cartridge in the AR-10.
P.S. My 26 inch barrel, 204 Ruger AR-15 is used for prairie dog shooting.
Varminterror
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Large frame AR’s have never been terribly popular outside of the “battle rifle” application in civilian markets, compared to the highly variable and virile small frame AR market. So MOST folks buying LFAR’s aren’t experimenting nearly as much as the AR-15 buyer. They cost more and are heavier - so a less diverse market exists.
But, despite this market lag, LFAR’s in 243win were available for many years, albeit far less common obviously than the 308. HOWEVER, to be honest, I would challenge there were likely a similar proportion of 243win’s sold vs. 308’s as there were any single AR-15 cartridge vs. the 223/5.56. Recognizing the fact there were and remain to be orders of magnitude more AR-15’s sold than LFAR’s - but the proportionality likely is very similar, or at least WAS for many years. Simply, there just aren’t that many LFAR’s, so being a minority among them makes the 243win an extremely small minority when compared, irrationally, to the AR-15 market.
With the advent of the 6 creed, the 243win LFAR’s have almost all subsided. Custom barrels remain out there, and for many of us, the difference then is arbitrary - I haven’t bought a factory AR-15 in over a decade, and not a a factory LFAR for even longer. Custom vs. custom, getting a 243win is as easy as getting anything else imaginable, and easier than some.
I have had three LFAR’s in 243win, one of which was a DPMS GII, and another of which I eventually rebarreled to 243AI. My current LR competition gas gun is a 6mm Creed - but would have been a fast twist 243win if the 6 creed did not exist (MAYBE a 6SLR, but same same...).
I’ll say, to the side bar conversation happening above, the comments about .243win’s being insufficient for deer hunting, even the largest of deer, are utterly foolish.
But, despite this market lag, LFAR’s in 243win were available for many years, albeit far less common obviously than the 308. HOWEVER, to be honest, I would challenge there were likely a similar proportion of 243win’s sold vs. 308’s as there were any single AR-15 cartridge vs. the 223/5.56. Recognizing the fact there were and remain to be orders of magnitude more AR-15’s sold than LFAR’s - but the proportionality likely is very similar, or at least WAS for many years. Simply, there just aren’t that many LFAR’s, so being a minority among them makes the 243win an extremely small minority when compared, irrationally, to the AR-15 market.
With the advent of the 6 creed, the 243win LFAR’s have almost all subsided. Custom barrels remain out there, and for many of us, the difference then is arbitrary - I haven’t bought a factory AR-15 in over a decade, and not a a factory LFAR for even longer. Custom vs. custom, getting a 243win is as easy as getting anything else imaginable, and easier than some.
I have had three LFAR’s in 243win, one of which was a DPMS GII, and another of which I eventually rebarreled to 243AI. My current LR competition gas gun is a 6mm Creed - but would have been a fast twist 243win if the 6 creed did not exist (MAYBE a 6SLR, but same same...).
I’ll say, to the side bar conversation happening above, the comments about .243win’s being insufficient for deer hunting, even the largest of deer, are utterly foolish.
entropy
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And whose fault is that for shooting at a poor target?
It's not a .22-250; how hot are those that are burning out barrels stoking them? Plus, AR barrels are ridiculously easy to change out, more so than most bolts, except Savage. I don't recall .224 Valkyrie in 1000 round boxes, either, and that one was made specifically for AR's. Plus handloading solves both of these problems-they don't have to be screamers to kill deer out of an AR, and they are a bit more expensive to reload than .223, but not prohibitively so.
Varminterror
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My benchrest rifles in 243win were toast within 750-1000 rounds. Even hunting coyotes and prairie dogs, I replaced 243win barrels within 1500. There’s a lot of heat and hate flying through a 243win barrel. Even running slightly LESS powder and LESS speed, I’m only getting about 1200 rounds through my 6mm Creedmoor barrels in my PRS rifles before I lose velocity and should be replacing - although I do limp them along to 1500.
entropy
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Well, I'll be looking forward to replacing the barrel on my friends's Axis in two years......at least they are easy.
mljdeckard
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I was snooping around for load data and I came across this thread,
I recently built a .243. I ordered a barrel from X-Caliber, 20" with 1/8 twist to run heavier bullets. I am using it for coyotes, white tails, and distance shooting out to 1000 meters. The only problem I had was that somehow I had gotten a buffer spring that was far too stiff. Once I switched it to regular weight it runs fine, no malfunctions. I had looked for one, but no one built one in the configuration I wanted. My main concern is that the barrel life will be too short. I plan to build similar uppers in 7mm08 and 6.5 CM. I am getting MOA with off the shelf Remington 105 gr Core-lokt.
I have no idea where anyone would get the idea that .243 can't take mule deer, especially with modern bullets.
I recently built a .243. I ordered a barrel from X-Caliber, 20" with 1/8 twist to run heavier bullets. I am using it for coyotes, white tails, and distance shooting out to 1000 meters. The only problem I had was that somehow I had gotten a buffer spring that was far too stiff. Once I switched it to regular weight it runs fine, no malfunctions. I had looked for one, but no one built one in the configuration I wanted. My main concern is that the barrel life will be too short. I plan to build similar uppers in 7mm08 and 6.5 CM. I am getting MOA with off the shelf Remington 105 gr Core-lokt.
I have no idea where anyone would get the idea that .243 can't take mule deer, especially with modern bullets.
There are or were several out there, as others have said the reason is low demand. The 6.5 Creed and now 6 Creed are pretty much the nail in the coffin for the 243 AR.
I built a fast twist 24" LFAR in 243 and was really happy with it until I decided to get a bolt gun to shoot LR and got a 6 Creed RPR the ability to buy relatively cheap factory that'll reach 1200 easily got me to rebarrel my AR to a 20" 6 creed and am very happy with the decision.
I built a fast twist 24" LFAR in 243 and was really happy with it until I decided to get a bolt gun to shoot LR and got a 6 Creed RPR the ability to buy relatively cheap factory that'll reach 1200 easily got me to rebarrel my AR to a 20" 6 creed and am very happy with the decision.
cdb1
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I’m with you.
stillquietvoice
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1100 ft lbs @ 350 isn't enough?
JJFitch
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Not my experience at all! I've shot Mule Deer and Black Tails and Antelope in the western states. .243 Win. 100 grain Sierra SPBT! None have walked over 20 yards! But then they were all shot in the "engine block"!
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