NoHillForAHighStepper
member
Since the 243 Win is based on the 308 case, why aren't there more AR10's or mini 30's chambered in 243? That is an AR that I would be interested in owning. 5.56, 308, 300 blk are mediocre cartridges, IMHO.
AR10 in 243 Win....why so few?
- Thread starter NoHillForAHighStepper
- Start date
- Status
gotboostvr
Member
The mini 30's are based on a 7.62x39, the actions too short for 308win based cartridges.
General Geoff
Member
Supply and demand. There are a few AR10 uppers and even complete rifles built up for .243, but .243 Win is simply not as popular as .308/7.62.
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/ar-10-ranger/
https://www.ar15part.com/20-243-Win...pper-Assembly-1x8-p/20243wcm1x1015exrlmlr.htm
You could probably have a custom barrel made up for .243 winchester to fit to an M14/M1A action, if you have deep pockets.
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/ar-10-ranger/
https://www.ar15part.com/20-243-Win...pper-Assembly-1x8-p/20243wcm1x1015exrlmlr.htm
You could probably have a custom barrel made up for .243 winchester to fit to an M14/M1A action, if you have deep pockets.
courtgreene
Member
I’m interested in how you define mediocre cartridges. It would seem to me, .308 blows the consistency of that list If it’s based on power. Unless your list is based on trajectory/ballistics. In that case, .223 blows the list. So I’m stumped.
I think you're looking for a 6.5 grendel or .224 Valkyrie to balance that out.
I see the barrels fairly often. I think the reason is that the .243 is a game caliber, and most AR10's are too heavy, or appeal to a crowd other than the traditional .243 fan. Of course the rise of the Creedmore killed a major segment of the .243 market both in bolt and autos. Now we have the 6CM which is pretty much the same thing, but it doesn't seem to be taking off.
OP
OP
NoHillForAHighStepper
member
223 vs 22-250 or 220 Swift?
308 vs. 30-06 or 300 Win Mag?
I would say they are mediocre compared to other cartridges in their calibers.
General Geoff
Member
.308 is superior to .30-06 or .300 winchester mag in an autoloading action because it's shorter, cycles better, and weighs less per cartridge (which is important for military applications). Barrels also last longer than with higher-velocity .30-06 or .300 win mag loads.
Similarly, 5.56/.223 is superior to .22-250 or .220 swift because of improved barrel life and reduced ammunition weight, and a shorter action.
For a hobbyist or hunter, these may not be major concerns, but for military and mass market appeal, they are.
Similarly, 5.56/.223 is superior to .22-250 or .220 swift because of improved barrel life and reduced ammunition weight, and a shorter action.
For a hobbyist or hunter, these may not be major concerns, but for military and mass market appeal, they are.
OP
OP
NoHillForAHighStepper
member
I should have defined them as ballistically inferior maybe? Although, the 308 is closer to the 30-06 than I realized.
.223 1:7 beats a .22-250 1-14......just saying
Bwana John
Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2004
- Messages
- 2,960
I've see AR10's in 7.62 nato, 7mm-08, 260 Rem, 243win
FAL's the same... plus 358 Win
M1a's the same... plus 6.5 CM, and a 250 Savage (!?!)
Haven't seen any of the above in 338 Federal, but it would be easy to do.
FAL's the same... plus 358 Win
M1a's the same... plus 6.5 CM, and a 250 Savage (!?!)
Haven't seen any of the above in 338 Federal, but it would be easy to do.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
I think the rise of 6.5CM took alot of the wind out of the .243s sails.
brasscollector
Member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2016
- Messages
- 373
Fairly easy to find 243 LR308 barrels, they're around. Most people who are in the AR10 market and are looking for something with better ballistics than the 308, the 6.5CM is a fairly common alternate chambering.
Kp321
Member
Just to be different, one of my customers had me build him two AR-10’s in 6mm Remington. Not all magazines would work but with the right mag, they shot well.
OP
OP
NoHillForAHighStepper
member
I was actually looking for a longer range varmint rifle in an AR platform. The 243, if loaded with 80-90 grainers, will carry more energy downrange than a 5.56. Granted, you probably need to be 350 yards+ to see the advantage but it is there...
I was also considering the 224 Valkyrie but it is expensive to shoot.
cdb1
Member
Cuz for me if I were to get an AR-10 type rifle it would be in 7mm-08, and if I were to get two, the second would be in .338 Federal.
cdb1
Member
Totally true and I’m surprised no mainstream manufacturers make a 22-250 with a 1:7 twist. Whittaker’s did have a special run of Tikka’s with 1:8 twist a couple of years ago. They sold out fast.
I bought an Armalite AR10 chambered in 308 prior to 2001 and the first “accessory” I bought for it was an extra Armalite upper chambered for 243.
The early Armalite 243 uppers were of the “flat top” variety a with a 20” barrel (which kinda shorts the shooter on performance reference the 243 cartridge).
My experience with the factory 243 upper was that it was difficult for me to get “gilt” edged accuracy with and it was overgassed with handloads when trying to get the velocity up to reflect full 243 potential (it was not uncommon for primers to fall out of the primer pockets due to the bolt opening too soon well before I got to max Powder. charges.
Now, keep in mind this was 20 years ago when Armalite was the only AR10 game in town (Knights Armament had the SR25 but nobody could afford one), the internet was brand new and nobody had heard of (let alone were making and selling) adjustable gas blocks, heavier buffers and buffer springs etc.
It took considerable patience and burning a whole lot of different powders and trying a bunch of bullets before I figured out what I had to do to get it to shoot the way I wanted.
Once I got it running the way I wanted and got the accuracy node for my handloads up to my standards accuracy I hunted varmints with it exclusively for about 4 years and killed a whole bunch of coyotes and bobcats with it.
During the years I hunted with it, I trained several young hunters in the art of varmint calling and that rifle with the 243 upper always left a lasting impression on them.
Some of those guys still stay in touch and when we talk they always ask if I still have that bad ass green 243 we killed all them coyotes with.
I always answer yes and they invariably comment that if I ever wanted to sell it to please give them first refusal.
If they only knew what it took for me to get it shooting the way I wanted they would never asked.
The early Armalite 243 uppers were of the “flat top” variety a with a 20” barrel (which kinda shorts the shooter on performance reference the 243 cartridge).
My experience with the factory 243 upper was that it was difficult for me to get “gilt” edged accuracy with and it was overgassed with handloads when trying to get the velocity up to reflect full 243 potential (it was not uncommon for primers to fall out of the primer pockets due to the bolt opening too soon well before I got to max Powder. charges.
Now, keep in mind this was 20 years ago when Armalite was the only AR10 game in town (Knights Armament had the SR25 but nobody could afford one), the internet was brand new and nobody had heard of (let alone were making and selling) adjustable gas blocks, heavier buffers and buffer springs etc.
It took considerable patience and burning a whole lot of different powders and trying a bunch of bullets before I figured out what I had to do to get it to shoot the way I wanted.
Once I got it running the way I wanted and got the accuracy node for my handloads up to my standards accuracy I hunted varmints with it exclusively for about 4 years and killed a whole bunch of coyotes and bobcats with it.
During the years I hunted with it, I trained several young hunters in the art of varmint calling and that rifle with the 243 upper always left a lasting impression on them.
Some of those guys still stay in touch and when we talk they always ask if I still have that bad ass green 243 we killed all them coyotes with.
I always answer yes and they invariably comment that if I ever wanted to sell it to please give them first refusal.
If they only knew what it took for me to get it shooting the way I wanted they would never asked.
rayatphonix
Member
I’ve bought 243 uppers from Midway at least 3 times. Each time I received an email they were back ordered. The first time I waited 6 months and finally cancelled the order. The last couple of times I cancelled in 3 or 4 weeks. Since I got a 6 Creedmoor I’ve stopped worrying about it.
OP
OP
NoHillForAHighStepper
member
This was my hunch but I was hoping somebody had some experience with one to lend me some of their wisdom. Thank you...
I'm not sure it will ever be a popular combination now that the 6.5 Creedmore and 6.8 SPC are available. IMHO, the 243 was over-rated as a deer cartridge. I think as a long-range varmint round in the AR platform, it might have found more popularity? But the 22-250 and 220 Swift are hard to beat....or the 17 Remington.
With my budget, I think I will have to stick with the 5.56 and just hunt harder if I want an AR. There are lots of great varminters available in bolt actions.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
And, in my own personal (and hilarious) experience, a 220 Swift at 640 yards. Bullets lose speed from the second they are free, Form Factor(B.C.) is Forever.
Since the ballistics misconceptions have been rectified, I’ll state that a Six Creedmoor in an AR-10 is your semi-auto equivalent.
I think you are still conflating the two AR frame sizes. The 6.8 and Creedmoor are too disparate to compare.
Large frame AR-10s handle short action cartridges like .308, 243Win and the Creedmoors.
AR-15s handle mini length cartridges, those that fit in an AR magazine, like .223Rem, 6ARC and 6.5Grendel.
A Six Creedmoor would be a modern, direct lineage from the .243Winchester.
A Six ARC would be the AR-15 mini action equivalent. Not a ballistics equivalence, much smaller case remember, but close as a necked down Grendel.
I beat my friend’s 220Swift all the time, with a .223.
It isn’t the arrow, it’s the Indian. (And in his case, my ability to do math...
)Then there is this.
https://nemoarms.com/rifles/omen-watchman
For when you reach out to touch something with more than just a tap on the shoulder...
FL-NC
Member
I have a 243 that I have owned over 20 years ( a simple 700 sporter). It has done a great job at taking down numerous deer. I think the reason it may be less popular for the AR is that the 308 is just better at longer distances, which seems to be the main attraction of AR10's. Also, as I understand it, 243 is hard on barrels with high round counts- also a problem for many AR10 fans.
cdb1
Member
I disagree. What do you base your opinion on? You also say, “was”, does that mean it used to be over-rated but isn’t over-rated now?
- Status
Similar threads
