How rare is tge US&S 1911?
- Thread starter grammontS
- Start date
- Status
texagun
Member
"During WWII, five companies received contracts to manufacture M1911A1s for the war department. Remington-Rand (typewriter manufacturer) made about 878,000, Colt’s Manufacturing Company turned out 629,000, and Ithaca Gun Company made 345,000.
Singer Corporation (sewing machine manufacturer) made only 500 units as an “educational order.”
Finally, Union Switch and Signal (which made railroad signaling equipment) manufactured 55,000 M1911A1 pistols — the second fewest of the wartime manufacturers. US&S guns were unique in some ways and known for their high quality.
In fact, none of the 55,000 pistols inspected and fired by US&S’s in-house Ordnance Department inspector were rejected. All received the “R.C.D.” inspector’s mark in a circle underneath the slide lock, showing that Lt. Col. Robert C. Downie had inspected and approved them."
Singer Corporation (sewing machine manufacturer) made only 500 units as an “educational order.”
Finally, Union Switch and Signal (which made railroad signaling equipment) manufactured 55,000 M1911A1 pistols — the second fewest of the wartime manufacturers. US&S guns were unique in some ways and known for their high quality.
In fact, none of the 55,000 pistols inspected and fired by US&S’s in-house Ordnance Department inspector were rejected. All received the “R.C.D.” inspector’s mark in a circle underneath the slide lock, showing that Lt. Col. Robert C. Downie had inspected and approved them."
huntsman
Member
US&S went for $4690. RR $1050. And $1690. $1,490. Ithaca$1,520. On latest gunrunner auction
Last edited:
huntsman
Member
True but I leave that up to the interested to research
Sovblocgunfan
Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2014
- Messages
- 1,483
They are pretty rare to see in private hands but I am aware of at least 1 that was serving with certain military units at least in the last twenty years.
A fella in one of those units snapped a picture of it and some of its buddies while they were serving.
I’ll see if I can track the picture down.
A fella in one of those units snapped a picture of it and some of its buddies while they were serving.
I’ll see if I can track the picture down.
tark
Member
Actually, guys, the Singer is not the rarest 1911 (or 1911A1) It IS the rarest of WWII production 1911s but In 1918 The North American Arms Company, in Canada, received a production order to produce 1911s. They used the Ross rifle factory and started production. It ended with the cancellation of the order because the war ended. They made about a hundred guns. They go at auction for six figures.
Jim Watson
Member
Actually the Singer educational order was placed in 1940 and the pistols were probably completed in November 1941 for delivery in December.
And the 100 NAACOs were never accepted by Army Ordnance.
So the US&S order really was the smallest wartime contract.
And the 100 NAACOs were never accepted by Army Ordnance.
So the US&S order really was the smallest wartime contract.
Once upon a time, in the late 1950s - early 1960s, I knew a fellow who turned out about 3 or 4 USS 1911s every month. Yes, they were collectible even! The point is... if you're really considering spending the money for a USS, make certain that you know what you're considering.
Sovblocgunfan
Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2014
- Messages
- 1,483
here it is. And I’m also including the link to the forum post for sourcing purposes. Regarding the pistol itself I think the frame is no longer US&S (no telling where the frame went, or when) now that I look at it again. But my point is still reasonable, I think.
Here’s the link to the posts. The poster was involved in several deployments in Iraq. https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1045645-CMP-1911A1-pistols/page3
Last edited:
Jim Watson
Member
Receiver has WB inspector's stamp which makes it a Colt from late 1941, more likely 1942.
And the AA (Augusta Arsenal) rework stamp shows where a US&S slide most likely got on a Colt frame.
Hammer, trigger, beavertail and barcode no doubt added much later. When the present CMP sales were just in rumor range, there was a leaked picture of 1911s just piled up on a table. There were several visible with non-GI components like that.
tark
Member
post deleted
Last edited:
.455_Hunter
Member
Wasn't the Singer 1911 production ended because the War Department thought their talents were better served making more technical things, like precision bomb sights?
Sovblocgunfan
Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2014
- Messages
- 1,483
i believe you re: slide and parts, as well as the table pile. But check the link I posted, starting with post 118 and look at the guy’s pictures. His are not from the CMP. It is impressive to me that they deployed with these as recently as 2017 and they are still soldiering on.
AlexanderA
Member
Singer's British subsidiary made the excellent micrometer rear sights for the No. 4 rifles.
Jim Watson
Member
Singer management told the Army that they would be better employed on higher precision equipment. Mostly artillery fire directors, not bomb sights.
Larryk19D
Member
Just got one, sort of from CMP, US&S slide and Ithaca receiver, both 1943. Couldn't be happier to combine two of the lower number manufacturers. Put a new recoil spring in and she shoots great.
Monac
Member
I have read that what the Army really wanted Singer to make was artillery fire control equipment. This did the calculations for what was called "time on target" salvos , allowing artillery pieces in scattered locations to fire at slightly staggered times such that all their shells arrived at the target at the same time. This greatly increased the shock effect. US field artillery fire control was the most technologically advanced of the war, based on complex mechanical computers. Singer was ideal for making those, whereas pistols could be made by firms with less sophisticated capabilities.
Jim Watson
Member
Mr Clawson indicates that Singer was pushing to get into fire director manufacture and the Army obliged them.
- Status
