Want to move to wet tumbling, couple of questions

Status
Not open for further replies.
QuietMike

QuietMike

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
49
Hey, I reload only Pistol caliber brass, the longest being 357 magnum, and I’ve been dry tumbling the whole time, but I wanted to move to wet tumbling because it seems to have better results, is faster, no dust, the pins last forever and is quieter.

Is there a general rule for how many pins you put in in relation to how much brass? And is there different sized pins for different calibers or anything?

I don’t decap my brass before cleaning, because it would take forever to do them one by one, and my progressive press does that for me during the reloading.
Is it necessary to decap if it’s going to be wet tumbled, I understand it would take longer to dry but that’s OK

Also I see most people are using this Lemishine product, how much of that should you put in?

thanks
 
I don’t wet tumble-I don’t see the advantage of it personally.

From what I’ve read most guys DO decap before wet tumbling.
 
Wet tumbling will give you shiny brass. That’s it. I do it because I like the process, it’s cleaner, and depending the tumbler...quieter.

I decap then tumble if the brass was picked at an indoor range. I’ll tumble first for outdoor brass, just to clean out the dirt, then decap and tumble again.

I use about a 9mm case full of Lemishine in my FA Rotary Tumbler.

I started out with the Dual Tumbler from Harbor Freight. I used a pound of pins and 100 9mm cases in each tumbler to keep the weight below the capacity of the motor turning both tumblers.

I bought guntap pins on Amazon. I used them for several thousand cases and didn’t have a single issue. The pins that were included with the FA Rotary Tumbler were thinner and shorter. I didn’t like that. I felt there was potential for a pin to get stuck inside.
 
QuietMike said:
Is there a general rule for how many pins you put in in relation to how much brass?
Click to expand...
Not really. But there is a sweet spot.
Too many cases & they don't turn out well.

When it comes to the liquid, more is not better.
I copied the statement below & it's what I live by.

I can't speak for your case capacity, but here's what I have used with GREAT success in my tumbler.
It will work with any tumbler.

Take a 1 gallon jug and add 1 Table Spoon of Soap and a max of 1/8 teaspoon of Lemi Shine.

Fill your containers with media, shells & juice.

Regardless of container size, you will have a correct mixture of cleaner.

As stated above, more is NOT better, especially when it comes to the Lemi Shine.
Click to expand...

I hope this helps.
The amount of brass/pins/liquid depends on the size of your tumbler's barrel.
 
Last edited:
The stainless media comes in different shapes and sizes. Pins come in different thicknesses (thicker pins won't get stuck in flash holes or the necks of bottle neck cases), there are also stainless chips which some folks think do a better job of cleaning primer pockets.
The advantage of deprimming cases, besides allowing them to get the primer pocket clean is to allow flow (both water and air) through the case...to flush the interior (water) and dry faster (air)

If you're not going to deprime the cases...I don't...you really don't need to add pins at all. The cases rubbing against each other provide all the agitation you need to clean the cases.

How much Lemishine you use is dependent on the hardness of your water. My water is considered "hard" and I add a .45ACP case of Lemishine to the full sized F.A.R.T.

Another thing to consider is the detergent you use. The most common recommendation is Dawn dish washing fluid. I prefer using Armorall Wash and Wax to leave a slight coating on the cases to prevent tarnish when exposed to air after cleaning
 
Over the last 45 years I've tried cleaning brass every way, I changed to SS/wet tumbling around 5 years ago and can't see using any other way now. Here's a quick video of my wet tumbling process.
 
I use both wet and dry tumbling depending on the situation. Both my wet tumblers are noisier than my dry tumbler. I de-prime before wet tumbling. Wet tumbling before de-priming requires some form of baking or a dryer unless you want to wait several days (it can take a long time to dry primer pockets with used primers in place).

Wet tumbling is more work and mess, especially if pins are used. But wet tumbling with pins can make grungy brass look new inside and out in a few hours, something dry tumbling will never accomplish.
 
QuietMike said:
Is there a general rule for how many pins you put in in relation to how much brass? And is there different sized pins for different calibers or anything?
Click to expand...
I used what came with the Platinum FART: 5#s of SS pins, 10#s of brass, and about 1 1/2gal (12#s) of water. That’s close to the 30# limit of the FART. This seems to work well, too much brass and they get clean but not nice and shiny which make them shoot a lot better.

QuietMike said:
Is it necessary to decap if it’s going to be wet tumbled, I understand it would take longer to dry but that’s OK
Click to expand...
No, it’s not necessary, and I don’t. Since water works it’s way into the primer cup, air dry for sufficient time. If you think it’s dry, put it in a clear plastic bag, close it and put it in the sun. If you get condensation on the inside you’ll know it needs more drying. Some use the oven, I don’t waste the energy.

QuietMike said:
Also I see most people are using this Lemishine product, how much of that should you put in?
Click to expand...
I ordered citric acid, it’s essentially the same thing but less expensive.
https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Citric-Acid-Pound-VERIFIED/dp/B00EYFKNL8
With my water, about 1 9mm case of acid, 1 9mm case of 3x Dawn and tumble for 2 hours. I’d start with this and check results, you may need a bit more or less depending on the condition of your water. Good luck!
 
I decap before tumbling I don't want the chance that water is trapped and then end up with a failure to fire due to wet powder. The pin size is not as critical with pistol rounds in my experience just go with a size that is being recommended or go to the chips.

A magnet and a media separator are mandatory for me.
 
I have been wet tumbling for about 5 years w the FART. I decap since it takes forever to dry even in a dehydrator. Thought they were dry and went to load and get water drops on the press. So, now I just run them thru a universal decap die (Lee or RCBS) on my Pro2000 or Co-Ax. Then the pins will clean the pockets as well and dry so much faster.
Started with the pins that came with the tumbler that were .041 and they would stick 2 at a time with 223 brass. Went to a .047 and no more problems.
I also use Wax N Wax and they dont tarnish like dawn does. Lemishine is available at my Walmart so I just picked it up there, the 5 lb bag is much cheaper and will most likely last a lifetime at 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon at a time! Tried the chips, they were covered in cutting oil and had to tumble in the purple degreaser/cleaner twice to come out clean. Seller didnt advise that they had to be cleaned first. Think it was Southern Shine or something close, very poor service from him. They also had black iron chips in the mix that would ruct if left in water in the tub after washing brass, the pins don't have that problem. I went back to pins and chips were dried and bagged up in the closet.
I kept my dry tumbler for other things like cleaning lube off of rifle cases when sizing and cleaning parts.
 
QuietMike said:
and is quieter.
Click to expand...
Not in my experience.:)

Better all the way around? Yup!

The tumbler will have a poundage rating for the container. I split this into thirds, dividing among the main components.

This container holds ten pounds of pins and ten pounds of brass. Filled to the neck with water is another ten or more pounds.
index.php


Some like more water, some less. I like very little air space, but still need some for the expansion and contraction of the cleaning solution over the thirty minutes.

QuietMike said:
I don’t decap my brass before cleaning, because it would take forever to do them one by one, and my progressive press does that for me during the reloading.
Is it necessary to decap if it’s going to be wet tumbled, I understand it would take longer to dry but that’s OK
Click to expand...

I would power dry them in an oven. Michigan only has sun like that for two months. I like them fresh from the oven, warm like mom’s cookies before I use them.
Like @9mmepiphany, I encourage depriming first. It cuts out one major area of potential problems, drying.
This press is the best seventy five dollars spent yet.
index.php


I use it only for depriming. I did that bucket, dropping them into that short tube, in less than an hour.

Gratuitous pic of my tumbler...:)
index.php
 
Wet tumbling gives you better results and less toxic lead dust in your lungs.

Most people use 5 lbs of stainless media for the popular-size tumblers (Thumlers, STM, Frankford etc.) The ratio of media to brass is unimportant because the water and soap are doing most of the action. The pins are there to add some mechanical action.

I decap on a progressive press because the case feeder makes it easier than other methods. Nevertheless, decapping before tumbling is not necessary. Jerry Miculek said he's never decapped before loading since the 70's, and I think he may have wet tumbled more cases than all of us combined. He also said he prefers stainless steel chips (Southern Shine) to the pins because the pins get stuck in the spent primers and break the decapping pin.

I have used both pins and chips (Southern Shine) now. I had a different reason for switching to chips: the pins are just the right size to stick in the mouth of 6.5mm (.264") cases. What I found about the chips is that they are very aggressive compared to the pins. They have sharp edges. They're also harder to clean-up because the individual chips are smaller and lighter than the pins. A powerful neodymium magnet helps, but with the chips it seems like I'm picking up metal dust whereas the individual pins are a lot bigger and the process is neater.

Lemishine is citric acid. I use it because it works chemically to shine the brass quickly. How much to use may depend on the hardness of your water, but a quarter-teaspoon per tumbling drum is a good place to start. I have hard water and get better results with 1/2 teaspoon. More is not better than just enough.

Failure to dry cases will result in misfires and squib loads. People here will give you countless methods to dry brass. I live in an arid climate and I find a towel and air-drying is enough for decapped brass as long as I'm willing to wait at least 24 hours. After I wait at least 24 hours, I then dry-tumble the brass in clean, dry media (corncob or walnut). This ensures it is dry. If I'm in a hurry, it means I don't have enough brass on hand and need to get more. I can dry brass a little faster with an air compressor or a heat gun or if the time and weather are right I can lay them out in the sun, but these extra procedures take more of my time not less so the quickest way to have dry brass is to be prepared with plenty on hand that is already dry.

Since you have a progressive press, consider decapping and resizing before you wet tumble. Rinse the dirty brass. It will still be wet. That's ok. Lube it with Hornady One Shot spray. Load it in the case feeder and decap then resize and expand. This may be several steps, but the idea is to do all the brass forming steps that benefit from lube even with carbide dies. Now when the brass is ready with all steps complete except to prime it, load powder and seat the bullet, put it in the wet tumbler. It will come out clean of any lube, shiny, and all sized to go. Then you can use the stations on the progressive to prime, powder, check powder, seat, and crimp. I'm not sure if you can prime on your first station. I prime by hand.
 
Last edited:
9mmepiphany said:
... The most common recommendation is Dawn dish washing fluid. I prefer using Armorall Wash and Wax to leave a slight coating on the cases to prevent tarnish when exposed to air after cleaning ...
Click to expand...
Actually, I think that by now, several years since the FART was introduced and rapidly became popular, ArmorAllWash&Wax may now be the most common recommendation for new wet-tumbling adopters. :)
 
Is there a general rule for how many pins you put in in relation to how much brass? And is there different sized pins for different calibers or anything?

My FART came with 5 lbs of SS pins and I use them all no matter how much brass I put in there. Doesn't see to affect the final cleaned product. I've played with the amount of pins and found no difference in how clean they come out.

I don’t decap my brass before cleaning, because it would take forever to do them one by one, and my progressive press does that for me during the reloading.
Is it necessary to decap if it’s going to be wet tumbled, I understand it would take longer to dry but that’s OK

Personal preference here. I decap because the primers make the water dirty, dirty, dirty. I like clean primer pockets as well. Others have been reloading for ages with less than sparkling primer pockets and everything goes as planned without issues. I decap using a universal Lee decapping die before wet tumbling. Decapping before tumbling is not different because of wet vs dry tumbling. Wet tumbling does not change this preference. But the cases will hold water and not dry as fast etc... So that can be a determining factor for you possibly.

Also I see most people are using this Lemishine product, how much of that should you put in?

Anywhere from a 45 ACP case full to a table spoon. But it usually does not take much. Whether I am running 1,000 pieces of brass or 50, I use the same solution mix. Fill up the tumbler 7/8th full of water. I use liquid dawn detergent and lemon shine powder. I squeeze some dawn in and throw in a little lemon shine. It's a guestimate squeeze of dawn every time. Some throw in a little car wash/wax mixture in there to help the shine stay and keep brass from tarnishing

The biggest advantage for wet tumbling over dry for me is more than just having super shinny brass. The super shinny brass inside and out helps me see problem brass before my gun finds the problem. I can see imperfections, cracks, bulges, and other reasons to toss the brass in the loading process. This is much much easier on clean, shinny brass. I can see the powder charge very easy in the case as well with the inside shinny.

I would much rather find an issue with a case before my gun finds the problem.
 
labnoti said:
Since you have a progressive press, consider decapping and resizing before you wet tumble. Rinse the dirty brass. It will still be wet. That's ok. Lube it with Hornady One Shot spray. Load it in the case feeder and decap then resize and expand. This may be several steps, but the idea is to do all the brass forming steps that benefit from lube even with carbide dies. Now when the brass is ready with all steps complete except to prime it, load powder and seat the bullet, put it in the wet tumbler. It will come out clean of any lube, shiny, and all sized to go. Then you can use the stations on the progressive to prime, powder, check powder, seat, and crimp. I'm not sure if you can prime on your first station. I prime by hand.
Click to expand...

I concur.
 
I use Citric acid instead of Lemi shine.
I get it at the canning section of the supermarket - cheaper than Lemishine
(I believe the citric acid in Lemi shine is why people use it)
Just ordered 5lbs from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Cit...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
$15
5 lbs will last a long time---
(1lb is $10 5 is $15 so might as well get 5lbs:))
Depends on your water PH but for me about a .45 case full
I use auto wash and wax, the cases get what the car gets, car gets whats on sale. (usually Turtle, but I have used 4 or 5 flavors and all seem about the same for cases)
The wax in the wash and wax makes cases easier to resize, and helps prevent tarnishing and water spots.

My range has nasty 80 grit dirt so I make a quick (1/2hour) pass in the wet tumbler before I deprime.

Then I make a pass thru my LNL progressive and resize/deprime and expand case mouths then wet tumble.
 
Last edited:
labnoti said:
Failure to dry cases will result in misfires and squib loads. People here will give you countless methods to dry brass. I live in an arid climate and I find a towel and air-drying is enough for decapped brass as long as I'm willing to wait at least 24 hours. After I wait at least 24 hours, I then dry-tumble the brass in clean, dry media (corncob or walnut). This ensures it is dry. If I'm in a hurry, it means I don't have enough brass on hand and need to get more. I can dry brass a little faster with an air compressor or a heat gun or if the time and weather are right I can lay them out in the sun, but these extra procedures take more of my time not less so the quickest way to have dry brass is to be prepared with plenty on hand that is already dry.
Click to expand...
During the summer, > 90 degrees, I pat them dry on a towel before dumping them into a turkey pan laid out in the sun. After about 3 hours, they are usually hot to the touch and ready to be brought inside...these are cases with the primers still in place. In colder months, the turkey pan goes into a 215F degree oven (water boils at 212F) for 15-20 mins.

I've never had a misfire or squib attributed to failure to dry cases. I have a lot of handgun cases and newly cleaned cases go to the bottom of the rotation to be loaded. After sitting in the garage for a few days, I've never found any condensation in the coffee cans they are stored in
 
Hey, I reload only Pistol caliber brass, the longest being 357 magnum, and I’ve been dry tumbling the whole time, but I wanted to move to wet tumbling because it seems to have better results, is faster, no dust, the pins last forever and is quieter.
Click to expand...
I only do pistol myself. Wet tumbling has been an overall good experience, but it will change your cleaning process. You need to fully understand the new process before you dive in.

Is there a general rule for how many pins you put in in relation to how much brass? And is there different sized pins for different calibers or anything?
Click to expand...
In my estimation, the LemiShine is doing as much "cleaning" as the pins. So as long as there's about 1/2 cup of pins you're good. That may change with the container size. I'm using the Frankfort Arsenal Rotary Tumbler (FART) Lite. About 2 years into it, I'm still using the original pins supplied with the unit. I've clearly lost several hundred, but it hasn't made a difference.

I don’t decap my brass before cleaning, because it would take forever to do them one by one, and my progressive press does that for me during the reloading.
Is it necessary to decap if it’s going to be wet tumbled, I understand it would take longer to dry but that’s OK.
Click to expand...
This is the big process change you'll need to adopt, otherwise water will be entrapped in the primer pocket and may kill the new primer. It REALLY helps to have a case feeder so you can load cases in bulk and run them through a Universal Decapping Die. Wet tumbling without decapping might be possible if you live in west Texas or Arizona where you could simply let the cases bake outside for 24 hours. But without free year-round solar, this prospect may not work.

Please understand that most people are using an energy intensive drying cycle to merely prevent water spots, which can greatly reduce the newly acquired shine. With no primer, there is no entrapped water, and thus the drying time is very fast. If there was entrapped water in the primer pocket, then drying times would probably take much, much longer !! I'm using an old hair dryer as my energy source, and this thing is LOUD !! If I had to extend the drying time by 3 or 4X, then that would seriously be a deal breaker. Without primers I'm done drying in 15 minutes tops.

Also I see most people are using this LemiShine product, how much of that should you put in?
Click to expand...
In the FART Lite canister, which holds about 1 gallon, my formula is 1 tablespoon of powdered LemiShine, 1 cup of liquid wash & wax, and the rest hot water. The FART Lite holds between 500-700 common pistol cases (max). Since there are no internal paddles, the minimum number of cases is around 250 to get a proper churn.

You'll see many FART reviews saying the brass did not get clean, those instances are all due to no LemiShine, not enough solid material to get proper tumbling action, or both. This part of tumbling involves a lot of OJT, so you should clearly ignore first time reviews.
.
 
Last edited:
labnoti said:
Wet tumbling gives you better results and less toxic lead dust in your lungs.

Most people use 5 lbs of stainless media for the popular-size tumblers (Thumlers, STM, Frankford etc.) The ratio of media to brass is unimportant because the water and soap are doing most of the action. The pins are there to add some mechanical action.

I decap on a progressive press because the case feeder makes it easier than other methods. Nevertheless, decapping before tumbling is not necessary. Jerry Miculek said he's never decapped before loading since the 70's, and I think he may have wet tumbled more cases than all of us combined. He also said he prefers stainless steel chips (Southern Shine) to the pins because the pins get stuck in the spent primers and break the decapping pin.

I have used both pins and chips (Southern Shine) now. I had a different reason for switching to chips: the pins are just the right size to stick in the mouth of 6.5mm (.264") cases. What I found about the chips is that they are very aggressive compared to the pins. They have sharp edges. They're also harder to clean-up because the individual chips are smaller and lighter than the pins. A powerful neodymium magnet helps, but with the chips it seems like I'm picking up metal dust whereas the individual pins are a lot bigger and the process is neater.

Lemishine is citric acid. I use it because it works chemically to shine the brass quickly. How much to use may depend on the hardness of your water, but a quarter-teaspoon per tumbling drum is a good place to start. I have hard water and get better results with 1/2 teaspoon. More is not better than just enough.

Failure to dry cases will result in misfires and squib loads. People here will give you countless methods to dry brass. I live in an arid climate and I find a towel and air-drying is enough for decapped brass as long as I'm willing to wait at least 24 hours. After I wait at least 24 hours, I then dry-tumble the brass in clean, dry media (corncob or walnut). This ensures it is dry. If I'm in a hurry, it means I don't have enough brass on hand and need to get more. I can dry brass a little faster with an air compressor or a heat gun or if the time and weather are right I can lay them out in the sun, but these extra procedures take more of my time not less so the quickest way to have dry brass is to be prepared with plenty on hand that is already dry.

Since you have a progressive press, consider decapping and resizing before you wet tumble. Rinse the dirty brass. It will still be wet. That's ok. Lube it with Hornady One Shot spray. Load it in the case feeder and decap then resize and expand. This may be several steps, but the idea is to do all the brass forming steps that benefit from lube even with carbide dies. Now when the brass is ready with all steps complete except to prime it, load powder and seat the bullet, put it in the wet tumbler. It will come out clean of any lube, shiny, and all sized to go. Then you can use the stations on the progressive to prime, powder, check powder, seat, and crimp. I'm not sure if you can prime on your first station. I prime by hand.
Click to expand...

Thia is exactly what I do and the cases and primer pockets come out looking like new. I added the dry tumble/NuFinish to my process because the light coating of polish keeps the brass from darkening and adds a bit of lubricity back to the neck for smoother bullet seating,

Nice-to-haves that are worth the money:
Franklin Magnet for managing the SS pins
Media separate to remove pins from cases and rinse dirty water and soap from cases
Cheap food dehydrator - it drys the brass in about 30-60 minutes depending on the # of cases
 
i wet clean rifle cases only, after i deprime them. pistol goes into the dry cleaner with walnut shell. i use walnut shells from a big box pet store. i use water, dawn, and lemishine in my wet cleaner. i dry my cases in a beef jerky maker for several hours. i don't get dust with my ultra vibe 18 tumbler. you can use just about any car wash or dish washing stuff with lemishine to clean cases in a wet cleaner.
 
I wet ruble everything because IMO it’s cleaner and safer. No dust, no dry stuff to keep buying and shake and create dust. I have a FART and do squirt of dawn, 9mm or less of Lemi shine and throw them in the tumbler for 3hrs and then into a 5gal bucket Lyman sifter and rinse them with the hose. 99% of the pins fell through and I then put them into a beach towel and twist it up and shake. This gets most the water out and leave them dry outside on a table on the towel. Winter time I run a small fan on them and they dry. I used to do dry and got tired of black fingers.
 
I don't miss the dust and noise from dry cleaner walnut stuff. That said I wouldn't think of not decapping before cleaning (in my case an ultrasonic but wet anyway) and the Hornady case dryer makes me wait until totally dry and cooled down. I don't seem to have a lot of patience now days. I was using a little left over electric bake oven and I would be trying to organize the shells and they were still HOT when I'd try to sort by head stamp, duh !
 
I have an old dehydrator I used to use for jerky. It was beat up and a couple trays cracked. Runs at about 140ish depending on how full it is. Dries very well in reasonable time.

I've never decapped before wet tumble. Plenty of 8lb kegs of powder and not one added decap before cleaning.

Using the FART I'll add all the pins that came with it, 1/4 tsp lemishine (13 grains hard water) , pile o brass, full of hot water, then dawn dish squirt from bottle 2-3 seconds. Run it an hour, sometimes longer as I'm on other projects and the tumbler is in garage.

I have a plastic bin drilled out like a colander with holes just small enough so 9mm can't fall through. This bin is inside a rubber tote. Dump the whole fart in the inner bin and agitate for on minute. All pins are now in the bottom tote with dirty water.

Rinse all brass through a seive strainer. A final swish of a magnet to confirm no wayward pins. Dump into dehydrator.

Tote of water pins gets poured over a 5gallon bucket with a tshirt used as cheesecloth to catch pins. Water dumped. Rinse pins as needed for next use.

I'm on vacation now this over 10k or rounds in assorted calibers so next week I'll have pictures of brass cleaning.

I've always had the dehydrator so perhaps that's why the drying has been a non issue. Don't even know how long they run as they are in garage and I'm just doing other things. Stop over and grab a few random cases and smack them on my palm for any wetness. Also about two or three hours the case start feeling to hot to hold more than 4-5 seconds. You know your just about there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

WestKentucky
  • Locked
Tumbling trending to wet?
2 3
Replies
63
Views
4K
RussellC
R
Highland Lofts
DRY TUMBLING VERSES WET TUMBLING
2 3 4 5 6 7
Replies
156
Views
5K
hdwhit
H
coloradokevin
  • Locked
Wet Tumbling Brass - Strange Discoloration
Replies
19
Views
3K
Toprudder
Toprudder
M
  • Locked
Wet tumbling - separating pins from brass with a media separator
Replies
16
Views
693
IALoder
I
tcoz
  • Locked
Wet tumbling question
Replies
23
Views
1K
WeekendReloader
WeekendReloader
Back
Top