Good read - The changing face of gun ownership

edwardware said:

- The mere desire to be armed isn't necessarily redeeming. Mao's Red Guard were armed, and helped starve 60 million of their own countrymen to death at gunpoint.

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This is very insightful. I think there are too groups running to get guns... those scared by what they see going on around them who desire guns to protect themselves, and those desiring to get guns to impose their ill will on their fellow citizens. ANTIFA is also arming up and getting increasingly militant.

SSN Vet said:

I think there are two groups running to get guns... those scared by what they see going on around them who desire guns to protect themselves, and those desiring to get guns to impose their ill will on their fellow citizens.

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There's a lot of truth to that. I will say, however, that the first group far outnumbers the second, simply because the militants would have armed themselves as one of the first steps in their timeline. If you are a revolutionary you are not waiting until now to get your guns.

daniel craig said:

Lots of liberals have owned guns for a long time, and they pass that on to their liberal kids and friends, and believe in the 2A and gun rights strongly. The fact that surprises people is odd to me.

Also, some of the replies to this thread https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...l-be-the-only-thing-that-saves-the-2a.872076/

Vs the the thread this comment is on shows that some people are changing their minds on things and that’s a good thing.

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Both of my parents were Democrats. We had plenty of rifles and shotguns growing up because my dad was an avid hunter.

What changed? I know people who would never vote for a republican who own a gun.

Gun control is like every other political issue. If a legislator thinks that he/she can endorse an issue and get elected they'll do it. It doesn't mean when it comes time to vote for more gun control they actually vote for it. Congress hasn't passed any new gun control in 25 years. There's been a few democratic congresses in that time.

CoalTrain49 said:

Both of my parents were Democrats. We had plenty of rifles and shotguns growing up because my dad was an avid hunter.

What changed? I know people who would never vote for a republican who own a gun.

Gun control is like every other political issue. If a legislator thinks that he/she can endorse an issue and get elected they'll do it. It doesn't mean when it comes time to vote for more gun control they actually vote for it. Congress hasn't passed any new gun control in 25 years. There's been a few democratic congresses in that time.

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What changed?, the last four years changed, instead of saying "relax take off your tin foil hat we aren't coming for your guns" it is now openly "hell yes we are". Ask our friends in Virginia what is the only thing that stopped SOME of the gun control the democratic party majority was set to pass in February, it was because they marched on the capitol and it still didn't stop them completely. Ask our friends in California how they are doing with a one party rule of the DNC. They are now passing micro stamp laws on guns while eliminating even more handguns, which BTW would be president Harris supported in California and would no doubt support it and everything else on a national level.

The democratic party your parents knew and a lot of others knew has been hijacked by open socialist even maybe Marxist elitists. One just need see the news everyday to see it being revealed. And I believe THAT has a lot to do with the changing face of gun ownership along with the COVID crisis.

Editorial in today's Wall Street Journal, by Bill McGurn:

"Confessions of a New Gun Owner". You might enjoy this. He lives in NJ and his father was a career FBI agent.
On a different new network, he said "I don't want to be defenseless".

And this from a guy who must be in his 50s.

Ignition Override said:

Editorial in today's Wall Street Journal, by Bill McGurn:

"Confessions of a New Gun Owner". You might enjoy this. He lives in NJ and his father was a career FBI agent.
On a different new network, he said "I don't want to be defenseless".

And this from a guy who must be in his 50s.

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Unfortunately, it's paywalled on WSJ

Unfortunately it must be an "OK for me not for you" mentality. A lady in my ccw class, wife of a police officer, had this mentality. The two officers teaching the class couldn't sway her.

Beto "hell yes we're taking your AR /ak" is not in out field here.

Centrist Democrats were forced to move further left as the voters demand outright bans/ extreme gun control. Biden and kamala as pointed out are stating 100 days to mandatory "buybacks " (nevermind if the item was for sale or not).

Bernie (hardly centrist left) coming from Vermont didn't really favor gun control, but since 2016 or so is towing the party line.

Party line you ask? The democratic party line is:

- assault weapon ban with no sunset
-mandatory buybacks
-red flag gun laws
-no fly no buy (if you're on the no fly list)
-no more private sales
-ammunition taxes and limits
-mandatory "smart" guns
-elimination of self defense laws (hunting only)
-opening gun makers up to litigation when their products are used

This is just off the top of my head. Listen to folks in Canada and Australia on this matter. It's a slippery slope.

Finally to further address the original "changing face" post, I implore you to do your own research.

Check out the reddit groups like "socialist gun owners" etc.

These folks do not place the 2a at the forefront of how they vote. They are very willing to endorse candidates who are vehemently anti gun and freedom in general.

Often, sadly, this gun owner moreso looks like the capital hill Steve scalise shooter. Anti gun but owning guns and wanting to use them against the freely elected democratic process. We are seeing this a lot in our streets today.

They would happily give up their guns once the people and ideologies they like are in power. They hope to change the process to make this permanent (do away with electoral college system, mail in ballots, lower voting age, no id required, non citizens allowed to vote etc).

I wouldn't say a lot of these folks are going to be joining the nra or teaching the next generation our beautiful firearm traditions of taking their family friends out with a 22 lr to learn marksmanship. Hope I'm wrong.

If the right group of people get elected we will have more gun control and they don't give a hoot what their constituents think. They got elected, are in power, and are going to do what they want. I saw it happen in my state last year with a red flag law which polls showed 70% of the population opposed and we have it anyway.

I am all for embracing new shooters whatever their beliefs are and trying to educate them to what their voting choices will lead to after that choice is in office and doesn't need their vote.

23tony:
The Wall Street Journal appears in our driveway six days/week.

I have a photograph of this article on my iPhone.
If you send me a smartphone number (Via a PM ‘underground tunnel’) I can text it to whoever.

Did so to five friends‘ phones who also must cross Checkpoint Charlie, due to the Paywall.

Canada recently made draconian changes to well-established gun laws,
which had allowed semi-autos (already with 5-rds mag limits) such as the Czech VZ-58 In 7.62x39 etc.

No longer allowed under Prime Minister Trudeau, even at a range or club.
The new list of banned guns is quite long, and this only encourages such smugly superior anti-gunners in the US.

Antigun support (to which Democratic politicians are responding) is "a mile wide and an inch deep." On the other hand, pro-gunners have a vested interest in their side, since they actually own guns. This difference in intensity of commitment has always characterized the gun debate. New gun owners, even those who were previously antigun, are not going to look kindly on draconian confiscation measures. Regardless of anything else, this buying wave is going to be significant.

I'd also like to point out that party platforms (which are mere rhetoric anyway) hardly ever survive their first encounter with the legislative sausage-making process.

Idunno, I would say states like California or new york are a cautionary tale here. An inch deep looked to have been "enough ".

What you see is a growing authoritarian trend "if action isn't taken in for first 100 days" etc. Claiming mandate from the voters etc.

I think that most should have the privilege of the 2A but I just cannot convince myself that there exists those that just should not and we all know or have witnessed someone in that category - let us not kid ourselves.
Humans are “tribal” by nature; people were tribal throughout history. I agree that the broad brush approach is inaccurate and unfair however, tribalism of groups is a sum of individuals that do not taste the same but they do have a similar flavor - a great example of that to me is the people we choose to hunt with - the many I have come across in the bush appear pretty similar to each other in these groups.
Like others here, I do not accept the broad brush as reality - it skews perspective and truth. However, tap-dancing political correctness just because I want to appease with the mob skews perspective and reality also. My long life continues to reinforce the experience of the truth is always somewhere in the middle. We continue to fool ourselves (ad nauseam) by exercising either extreme.

AlexanderA said:

Antigun support (to which Democratic politicians are responding) is "a mile wide and an inch deep." On the other hand, pro-gunners have a vested interest in their side, since they actually own guns. This difference in intensity of commitment has always characterized the gun debate. New gun owners, even those who were previously antigun, are not going to look kindly on draconian confiscation measures. Regardless of anything else, this buying wave is going to be significant.

I'd also like to point out that party platforms (which are mere rhetoric anyway) hardly ever survive their first encounter with the legislative sausage-making process.

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That's more or less what I was trying to say.

I'm actually surprised any dem candidate is still pushing gun control. It's pretty stupid if you ask me given the fact that so many non-gun owners just purchased guns. Most of us already have enough guns so the people buying those must be socialist Democrats arming up for the coming insurgency. And why is all the ammo gone? I didn't buy any.

Ignition Override said:

The new list of banned guns is quite long, and this only encourages such smugly superior anti-gunners in the US.

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Said list includes arfcom, anti-tank missiles, and even coffee--while about appearances, it includes very real restrictions upon our Canadian neighbors.

Today, there are a large number of people in America whose goal in life is to destroy my nation, my culture, my people, and my way of life. Frankly, I'd prefer that they weren't armed, and I could do without their "2nd amendment support".

It's about more than just guns.

AlexanderA said:

Antigun support (to which Democratic politicians are responding) is "a mile wide and an inch deep." On the other hand, pro-gunners have a vested interest in their side, since they actually own guns. This difference in intensity of commitment has always characterized the gun debate. New gun owners, even those who were previously antigun, are not going to look kindly on draconian confiscation measures. Regardless of anything else, this buying wave is going to be significant.

I'd also like to point out that party platforms (which are mere rhetoric anyway) hardly ever survive their first encounter with the legislative sausage-making process.

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I really, really hope that you're right.

Hartkopf said:

Liberals owning guns? Kamala used to carry. Does that mean she understands the average persons right to defend themselves?

No she does not. At least doesn't care.

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She understands it, she's an attorney turned politician. She's trying to get elected using the gun control platform that so many other Democrats have used to get elected ever since Bill Clinton used it. She isn't stupid. She used it in CA to get elected to the senate. Nobody saw this pandemic and total disregard for law and order insurgency coming. That's going to catch a lot of Democrat pols off guard and losing their sacred cow gun control vote. It's going to be way down on the list of issues for independent voters this fall, way down.

My guess is it's too late for Biden and Harris to jump ship on the gun control issue. They have both made it a signature issue for many years. They made a mistake and that may have just presented itself this summer like a bolt of lightning out of a clear blue sky.

Stophel said:

Today, there are a large number of people in America whose goal in life is to destroy my nation, my culture, my people, and my way of life. Frankly, I'd prefer that they weren't armed, and I could do without their "2nd amendment support".

It's about more than just guns.

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That's down right anti 2A and against my RKBA. If it were that easy we would have never evolved from being subjects of the king of England. You do know that the battle of Lexington/Concord was about an arms cache, right?

'The changing face of gun ownership"

I already stated some opinion on this here is another aspect why so many guns are being bought many times by first time owners be they women, white, black, hispanic or whoever...

Because most people regardless of identity want peace and order, and they are seeing fringe Democrats go off on antics like this.....

"
Where Are The Police?" After Voting To Defund Cops, Minneapolis City Council Baffled Over Recent Crime Wave"

quote democratic council person
"We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department. And when we’re done, we’re not simply gonna glue it back together. We are going to dramatically rethink how we approach public safety and emergency response. It’s really past due."

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/w...-minneapolis-city-council-baffled-over-recent

CoalTrain49 said:

My guess is it's too late for Biden and Harris to jump ship on the gun control issue. They have both made it a signature issue for many years. They made a mistake and that may have just presented itself this summer like a bolt of lightning out of a clear blue sky.

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It's hard for a political party to turn on a dime. The gun control mythology seems to have permeated the national Democratic party.

I will say this, though. If the Democrats manage to win control of the U.S. Senate, they will do so on the strength of candidates who are not antigun. Senators (and potential Senators) like Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, Cal Cunningham, or Steve Bullock are not going to vote for gun confiscation. The Democrats may get an organizing majority, but that does not necessarily mean that they will get an antigun majority.

That is precisely why we did not get an AWB this year here in Virginia. Four sensible Democratic state senators (one of whom represents my district) wouldn't go along with it.

CoalTrain49 said:

That's down right anti 2A and against my RKBA. If it were that easy we would have never evolved from being subjects of the king of England. You do know that the battle of Lexington/Concord was about an arms cache, right?

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That comment is SO off the wall, I don't even know how to respond to it. I expect, though, that Brandolini's Law would apply.

lionking said:

Because most people regardless of identity want peace and order, and they are seeing fringe Democrats go off on antics like this.....

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A lot of the gun buyers are Democrats, maybe even "fringe" Democrats. There is no place on the Form 4473 for stating your political affiliation.

Stophel said:

That comment is SO off the wall, I don't even know how to respond to it. I expect, though, that Brandolini's Law would apply.

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What he meant to say (if I may so presume) is that the 2nd Amendment is universal, and is not just limited to people who might agree with us politically.

AlexanderA said:

A lot of the gun buyers are Democrats, maybe even "fringe" Democrats. There is no place on the Form 4473 for stating your political affiliation.

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Yep, and they spent many years wanting guns banned because they were always worried the crazy redneck yahoos from out in Flyover land were going to come to their urban utopias and kill them. Well, this past year it's gotten a lot scarier because not only have the crazy redneck yahoos got more guns that ever, the urban "elite's" neighbors there in the urban paradise are out rioting and looting and making things generally unsafe. So the urban "elite" has had to stoop to buy guns! Isn't that terrible!

That being said; if you do run into one of the urban "elite" at your local range, don't shun them or be nasty to them. Help them if they need it, give them advice and shooting tips if they ask. Just never, ever, ever, ever let yourself be lulled into believing that there's been a massive "Come to Jesus" among these people with regard to guns, gun rights or the 2nd Amendement. Because that hasn't happened and probably never will.