TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
They calling you about that too? I thought it was just me......
According to the VPC, gun ownership is dropping...
- Thread starter redsaber75
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They calling you about that too? I thought it was just me......
ZeSpectre
Member
Do the math
Meaningless numbers twisted for their use.
For a moment let us ignore the probablility that there are a lot of un-reported firearms out there.
So let's say in 1972 there were 100 households and 54% of them reported owning firearms. The actual number - 54 households with firearms.
Population growth happens (as it usually does) and in 2006 there are 300 households. 34.5% of them report having firearms. The actual number - 103 households with firearms.
(or if you want real numbers, roughly 70 million households in 1977 would equal about 37 million households with guns but the 2006 population was roughly 115 million households in 2006 so with a "mere" 34.5% of them having firearms that would still be roughly 40 million households with guns.)
Anyone here for any amount of time is also well aware that most people would either fail to report or mis-report gun ownership for a multitude of reasons so the whole study is a complete joke.
Meaningless numbers twisted for their use.
For a moment let us ignore the probablility that there are a lot of un-reported firearms out there.
So let's say in 1972 there were 100 households and 54% of them reported owning firearms. The actual number - 54 households with firearms.
Population growth happens (as it usually does) and in 2006 there are 300 households. 34.5% of them report having firearms. The actual number - 103 households with firearms.
(or if you want real numbers, roughly 70 million households in 1977 would equal about 37 million households with guns but the 2006 population was roughly 115 million households in 2006 so with a "mere" 34.5% of them having firearms that would still be roughly 40 million households with guns.)
Anyone here for any amount of time is also well aware that most people would either fail to report or mis-report gun ownership for a multitude of reasons so the whole study is a complete joke.
Even with random sampling, you are going to statistically hit a non-gun owning household more often than not because of urbanization. Where are most people banned from owning guns? In the cities where you have more people to poll. Who is more likely to own guns nowdays because they can actually shoot - People in the country and fringe Suburbs or city/heavy suburbia?
Even the historically high gun ownership areas like Arizona, Idaho, etc are getting inundated with indoctrinated people from california, mass, etc which bring their distortions and regulation promoting agendas. Their votes start skewing elections and demographics start changing. It is like a disease infesting America.
Even the historically high gun ownership areas like Arizona, Idaho, etc are getting inundated with indoctrinated people from california, mass, etc which bring their distortions and regulation promoting agendas. Their votes start skewing elections and demographics start changing. It is like a disease infesting America.
budney
member
[blockquote]
(or if you want real numbers, roughly 70 million households in 1977 would equal about 37 million households with guns but the 2006 population was roughly 115 million households in 2006 so with a "mere" 34.5% of them having firearms that would still be roughly 40 million households with guns.)
[/blockquote]
Good point. An honest headline might read, "Gun ownership growing, but population growing faster."
--Len.
(or if you want real numbers, roughly 70 million households in 1977 would equal about 37 million households with guns but the 2006 population was roughly 115 million households in 2006 so with a "mere" 34.5% of them having firearms that would still be roughly 40 million households with guns.)
[/blockquote]
Good point. An honest headline might read, "Gun ownership growing, but population growing faster."
--Len.
El Tejon
Member
Good point about urban areas. However, even in urban areas people own firearms, they just don't talk about them to complete strangers.
When I lived in D.C. and Chicago and someone called on the phone asking if I had firearms, of course I would deny ownership as I was slightly out of compliance with the gun laws of those esteemed cities.
When I lived in D.C. and Chicago and someone called on the phone asking if I had firearms, of course I would deny ownership as I was slightly out of compliance with the gun laws of those esteemed cities.
Heywood Case
Member
So why be surprised when surveys about attitudes towards firearms come up with results favoring the anti perspective? But this one was probably market research by some company you've done business with. The general social survey is not going to start by asking questions about hunting.
NORC is a well respected research center. There may well be flaws in the conception of the questions, in terms of nonresponse bias, and in the interpretations put on the results - but it is extremely unlikely that the actual conduct of the survey was twisted in order to produce results fitting the VPC agenda. In any case the person calling doesn't have anything to do with somebody's political agenda and there's no need to be rude to them (I'm talking about serious interviewers here, aggressive telemarketers etc are fair game IMO).
I will take a look at Tom Smith's paper and comment if I can.
John
Having lived my entire life in the four corners states, I have to agree with that one. These idiots flee CA, the midwest and the east because of the problems there, and they bring their idiot voting habits with them (which caused the problems in the first place). What ever happened to "when in Rome?"
BTW, I'm not picking on those of you from CA, the east and the midwest. I'm suggesting that your liberal neighbors, rather than poisioning my neighborhood, behave more like you guys and vote RIGHT.:banghead:
atek3
Member
Started two gun clubs, got my instructors certification, helped five new owners buy their first gun, planted the seeds for 40 new shooters, organized plant tours of S&W and sigarms.
atek3
For me, it's more along the lines of "I'm not going to tell someone I don't even know, who could be casing my home, that I own guns." than it is "I hate intrusive surveys."
Might as well be "Do you keep large sums of cash stashed around your home?"
Not even too sure about that. It's closer to "Gun ownership growing, but number of households is growing faster." It's quite possible that more people are armed than ever, but the decline in average household sizes has had the effect of showing less armed households.
bogie
Member
The interesting thing here is that this is printed without verification. True, there's a _bit_ of a media slant, but at the same time, it basically looks like they just "tore it off the ticker" and went with it.
All too often the pro-gun community is reactive when _we_ should be the folks getting info out first. They've worded their press release to where it _sounds_ like news, which is the first hurdle. I suspect that an NRA press release would be something on the order of "Nothing new here. Move along. Nothing to look at." That's not news.
First thing to remember about media: The folks down in the trenches are working under deadlines, they're tired, and they want easy to use and ready to go. If you give them something that's a slam dunk, half the time they just go with it. If you require them to think or get into a lot of editing, you just lost.
All too often the pro-gun community is reactive when _we_ should be the folks getting info out first. They've worded their press release to where it _sounds_ like news, which is the first hurdle. I suspect that an NRA press release would be something on the order of "Nothing new here. Move along. Nothing to look at." That's not news.
First thing to remember about media: The folks down in the trenches are working under deadlines, they're tired, and they want easy to use and ready to go. If you give them something that's a slam dunk, half the time they just go with it. If you require them to think or get into a lot of editing, you just lost.
Test1968
Member
Did they factor in New Orleans?
New Orleans Residents Arming ThemselvesAP Exclusive: New Orleans Residents Are Arming Themselves in Nation's Murder Capital
NEW ORLEANS Mar 23, 2007 (AP)— Sixty-four-year-old Vivian Westerman rode out Hurricane Katrina in her 19th-century house. So terrible was the experience that she wanted two things before the 2006 season arrived: a backup power source and a gun. "I got a 6,000-watt generator and the cutest little Smith & Wesson, snub-nose .38 you ever saw," she boasted. "I've never been more confident." People across New Orleans are arming themselves not only against the possibility of another storm bringing anarchy, but against the violence that has engulfed the metropolitan area in the 19 months since Katrina, making New Orleans the nation's murder capital.
The number of permits issued to carry concealed weapons is running twice as high as it was before Katrina this, in a city with only about half its pre-storm population of around 450,000. Attendance at firearms classes and hours logged at shooting ranges also are up, according to the gun industry.
Gun dealers who saw sales shoot up during the chaotic few months after Katrina say that sales are still brisk, and that the customers are a cross-section of the population doctors, lawyers, bankers, artists, laborers, stay-at-home moms.
"People are in fear of their lives. They're looking for ways to feel safe again," said Mike Roniger, manager of Gretna Gunworks in Jefferson Parish.
Citizens, the tourism industry, police and politicians officials have been alarmed by the wave of killings in New Orleans, with 162 in 2006 and 37 so far this year. A Tulane University study put the city's 2006 homicide rate at 96 slayings per 100,000 people, the highest in the nation.
National Guardsmen and state police are patrolling the streets of New Orleans. In neighboring Jefferson Parish, which posted a record 66 homicides in 2006, the sheriff sent armored vehicles to protect high-crime neighborhoods.
In New Orleans, police have accused the district attorney of failing to prosecute many suspects. Prosecutors have accused the police of not bringing them solid cases.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2976683
New Orleans Residents Arming ThemselvesAP Exclusive: New Orleans Residents Are Arming Themselves in Nation's Murder Capital
NEW ORLEANS Mar 23, 2007 (AP)— Sixty-four-year-old Vivian Westerman rode out Hurricane Katrina in her 19th-century house. So terrible was the experience that she wanted two things before the 2006 season arrived: a backup power source and a gun. "I got a 6,000-watt generator and the cutest little Smith & Wesson, snub-nose .38 you ever saw," she boasted. "I've never been more confident." People across New Orleans are arming themselves not only against the possibility of another storm bringing anarchy, but against the violence that has engulfed the metropolitan area in the 19 months since Katrina, making New Orleans the nation's murder capital.
The number of permits issued to carry concealed weapons is running twice as high as it was before Katrina this, in a city with only about half its pre-storm population of around 450,000. Attendance at firearms classes and hours logged at shooting ranges also are up, according to the gun industry.
Gun dealers who saw sales shoot up during the chaotic few months after Katrina say that sales are still brisk, and that the customers are a cross-section of the population doctors, lawyers, bankers, artists, laborers, stay-at-home moms.
"People are in fear of their lives. They're looking for ways to feel safe again," said Mike Roniger, manager of Gretna Gunworks in Jefferson Parish.
Citizens, the tourism industry, police and politicians officials have been alarmed by the wave of killings in New Orleans, with 162 in 2006 and 37 so far this year. A Tulane University study put the city's 2006 homicide rate at 96 slayings per 100,000 people, the highest in the nation.
National Guardsmen and state police are patrolling the streets of New Orleans. In neighboring Jefferson Parish, which posted a record 66 homicides in 2006, the sheriff sent armored vehicles to protect high-crime neighborhoods.
In New Orleans, police have accused the district attorney of failing to prosecute many suspects. Prosecutors have accused the police of not bringing them solid cases.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2976683
I couldn't seem to find the Violence Policy Center through my web browser (IE 7), so I did the Live Search thingy. This is what I got back as the first entry in MS Live Search:
Violence Policy Center
A national educational foundation working to enhance gun control in America.
www.vpc.org · Cached page
Sorta tells ya alls ya needs ta know, eh?
Violence Policy Center
A national educational foundation working to enhance gun control in America.
www.vpc.org · Cached page
Sorta tells ya alls ya needs ta know, eh?
Good.....
unless the population is selling their guns for scrap. It means more on the used gun market for me.......The problem facing manufacturers is that guns last too long. I have several well over 100 years old and still work perfectly....chris3
unless the population is selling their guns for scrap. It means more on the used gun market for me.......The problem facing manufacturers is that guns last too long. I have several well over 100 years old and still work perfectly....chris3
BTW here in California, gun shows are packed, it can be hard to get help at gunshop counters with all the customers there, and ranges only go out of business when land is sold for housing developments.
I see a healthy market for firearms here, despite the VPC's efforts.
I see a healthy market for firearms here, despite the VPC's efforts.
eidsvolling
Member
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The only people who would characterize the University of Chicago as a "liberal university" are those unfamiliar with its faculty's reputation among liberals. And, perhaps, Spiro Agnew.
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