Comparing Accuracy & Velocity of 3 Powders in 2 Revolvers

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arcticap

arcticap

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Folks often ask about the velocity & accuracy of loads from C&B revolvers which led to reposting this range report by PastorB on the MLF: --->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/range-report-with-777-pyrodex-p-and-goex-fffg.125385/

"Went looking for some powder a few days ago, and all they had was 777 in what they call 3f granulation. Didnt really want it, but no options. Been a hard-core "Holy Black" guy since 1977, and was happy and saw no reason to change. But since all I could get was 777, went to the range and took along a chronograph, and was sure glad I did! Used a Pietta 1858 Army and an old, wore out (but very accurate!) Pietta 1851 Navy. Here are the results, from a rest at 25 yards, 6 shot group. Cleaned barrels between each cylinder. All shooting down with round balls, .375 and .454 respectively.

1851 Navy

Pyrodex P, 23 grains, 920 fps 2" group

Goex fffg, 23 gr. 900 fps 1.5", very consistent velocity, 17fps extreme spread.

777, 23 gr. 1120 fps, 1" group, great consistency! 29 fps e.s.

Shot a second group at 50 yards, 1.5" group, not kidding!

1858 Army

28 grain pyrodex P, velocity all over from 550 fps to 720 fps, but a great group of 1.25"

35 grain pyrodex P, 960 fps, 3" group.

35 grain Goex fffg, 920 fps, 2" group, with great consistency, e.s. 24 fps.

35 grain 777, 1150 fps, 1.5" group, with great consistency.

I don't try to make my guns into "Magnums", just reporting my results. Was very impressed with the 777 velocity, consistency and accuracy, and it cleaned far easier than either Goex or Pyrodex. I've been hesitant to use substitutes for years, but I'm going back to get some more 777! Will try in my rifles (not my flintlocks) next. Will post results when I do. Both the revolvers I used today are straight stock, and have had thousands of rounds through them."
 
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Interesting! I’ve never seen someone as happy with the results compared to BP, and I mean that from an accuracy, consistency, and extreme spread perspective. I can say I’ve never been disappointed in the many years I used nothing but T7, but the price of Olde E with the same results is more to my liking, and it’s the real deal.

Sure would like a chronograph myself...
 
rodwha said:
Sure would like a chronograph myself...
Click to expand...

It seems that something went wrong with the readings for the 28 grain .44 loads because the group was accurate.
That's shows how readings aren't always trustworthy unless they're repeatable.
But the more readings that can be obtained from different sources the better since they help corroborate results.

I would prefer a chronograph that has the screens separate from the electronics so that it can't be damaged by accidently shooting it. ;)
 
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arcticap said:
It seems that something went wrong with the readings for the 28 grain .44 loads because the group was accurate.
That's shows how readings aren't always trustworthy unless they're repeatable.
But the more readings that can be obtained from different sources the better since they help corroborate results.

I would prefer a chronograph that has the screens separate from the electronics so that it can't be damaged by accidently shooting it. ;)
Click to expand...
Yeah... er about that... Shooting Chrony used to include in the instructions that it’s a good idea to make a cardboard screen to be placed in front of the screen when shooting muzzleloaders. I ignored the advice once and a wool wad from a.54 caliber rifle center punched the LCD... off it went to Shooting Chrony and they replaced the screen, I seem to recall they did this free of charge. Great company and I’ve not repeated that particular mistake.
 
rodwha said:
Interesting! I’ve never seen someone as happy with the results compared to BP, and I mean that from an accuracy, consistency, and extreme spread perspective. I can say I’ve never been disappointed in the many years I used nothing but T7, but the price of Olde E with the same results is more to my liking, and it’s the real deal.

Sure would like a chronograph myself...
Click to expand...
The Caldwell basic chronograph which is similar to my Chrony F1 sells for around 90 bucks and has a 15’ cord that plugs into your phone to transmit data and I assume makes this available for other applications. Interesting...
 
That’s very interesting, I like the big smoke and smell of the Goex but maybe I will try a pound of 777 and see how I like it.

Has anyone ever tried the pyrodex pellets? the cost of them drove me away but I bet they’re very consistent
 
Russell13 said:
That’s very interesting, I like the big smoke and smell of the Goex but maybe I will try a pound of 777 and see how I like it.

Has anyone ever tried the pyrodex pellets? the cost of them drove me away but I bet they’re very consistent
Click to expand...


Not just the cost but the ability to formulate the best load. Though my NMA uses 30 grns, and I’ve read those pellets are peppy, it may not give the same accuracy as my 30 grn charge weighs 33-35 grns of Olde E so maybe mine threw on the heavy side. And maybe it would be similar enough, but then it wouldn’t be so great in my ROA or my rifle.


For ease of loading I’ve made paper cartridge. I get exactly what I want that way.
 
That is quite a velocity increase with equal charges of 777. I'd say the burning charactoristics (sp?) of 777 are quite "different" from black powder. I doubt that it being "hotter" is the only difference. Just another reason I would never use it....again. (again, after it chain-fired and blew the front sight and loading lever latch off my 1860)
 
Thank you Arcticap! Im sitting on 3 lbs of T7 right now and just haven't got around to using it. During all this craziness I stocked up on quite a bit of GOEX out of prepper necessityand added a feew lbs of T7 to try. This article our friend from ML forum typed up has me excited to try it out and run my own test
 
Voodoochile posted:

Well I have both a 8" & a 5.5" barreled Pietta 1858 NMA's & love em both.

This is the average chronographed ballistics I've gotten from them.

Bullet = .457 143 grain Cast Round Ball.
Powder = Goex FFFg black powder.
Primer = Remington #11.
5-1/2” Barrel Average Ballistics.
30gr. Volume = 756 fps. 181 ft. Lbs.

Bullet = .457 143 grain Cast Round Ball.
Powder = Goex FFFg black powder.
Primer = Remington #11
8” Barrel Average Ballistics.
30gr. Volume = 831 fps. 218 ft. Lbs.

See Post #7: --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...he-smoke-of-a-fired-1858.407275/#post-5115864
 
Russell13 said:
Has anyone ever tried the pyrodex pellets? the cost of them drove me away but I bet they’re very consistent
Click to expand...

Never tried the pellets but in one article in the Backwoodsman magazine the author wrote about using them in his revolver. He said they worked OK and went off mostly like they were supposed to but then he did an experiment. He filled the hollow base with 3F powder and glued a piece of tissue paper over it to hold it in place. He was shocked at the power and instant ignition he got with that combo.

So maybe try it but you have been warned.
 
Russell13 said:
That’s very interesting, I like the big smoke and smell of the Goex but maybe I will try a pound of 777 and see how I like it.

Has anyone ever tried the pyrodex pellets? the cost of them drove me away but I bet they’re very consistent
Click to expand...
Yeah, I can't stand the stink or the fouling of Pyrodex. The pellets are apparently more powerful than 30 grains of loose Pyrodex P but don't quote me on that. Several people have said that to me.
 
Yes they are more powerful and they are not the same as pyrodex powder, which believe it or not is very close to black powder in it's formulation and characteristics barring the foul smell and mess it leaves behind. Pyrodex pellets are some funky rocket fuel like concoction that loses stability if broken or crushed. They are convenient, load quickly, and work well provided the pellets form remains intact.

I have read that pyrodex pellets unlike black powder have a shelf life limit even when stored in the best climate conditions. If you use them in a timely manner and don't crush them they are reliable, consistent, and fun. A big drawback is you are very limited in how much you can adjust your powder charge (none in a revolver, large charge increments in a rifle) for the best performance.
 
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I started with Pyrodex P Pellets in my Pietta NMA, never had any issues with them. Got the feeling they crushed when ramming the ball down on them. All fired just fine.

I think I'm going to buy one of them expensive Labradar chronographs. Give me something to do.
 
The 777 has a ton more “punch,” but will wear the parts quicker and is MUCH more susceptible to moisture and lube fouling the powder during extended carry. Then again, you need all the penetration you can get from a .36 . With a full compressed cylinder of the stuff, I got some interesting results from mine. I’ll post them one of these weeks.
 
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