Explosive power of 1 to 5 lbs of blackpowder

Uncontained in pressure vessel, it just goes Phoooooff.....

I think its reputation and explosive designation comes from its abilty to be initiated from spark flame or heat This in some ways makes it more
dangerous than higher explosives that need special blasting caps or high power rifle rounds (tannerite) to detonate. I'm not sure what smokeless powder or even BP substitutes like 777 need to initiate the burn but I reckon it would be more than BP I also know that uncontained the propelants although having more energy do not burn as quickly as real BP.

Howdy

How much Black Powder one is allowed to own varies from state to state.

The reason Black Powder is more tightly regulated than Smokeless powder is because it is a true explosive. A low powered explosive to be sure, but it is an explosive. Modern Smokeless powders are progressively burning propellants.

I can tell you, as I stated in another post recently, that a few years ago my club hosted a group of Civil War reenactors. They brought a 3" Ordnance rifle to our range.This is a cannon with a 3" bore. Their 'practice' load was 1/2 pound of powder and a 9 1/2 pound solid lead projectile. They fired a few rounds into our 50 yard berm as part of their demonstration. They would not tell me what their 'competition' load was, but I looked it up and the standard charge during the Civil War was one pound of powder and the same 9 1/2 pound projectile. Maximum firing range with the bore elevated 16 degrees was 4,180 yards. That is 2 3/8 miles. That is a lot of explosive force.

ATF regulations allows for up to 50 pounds. On line dealers I’ve purchased from have a shipping limit of 25 pounds in one shipment.

And to add. You can mix and match. Primers percussion caps and powder in one box.

I guess it's up to individual interpretation but that video wasn't a "phoof". It was more of a "pow" and I for one would not have wanted to be standing near it. Stuff happens!

YMMV,
Dave

Regardless of how one interprets the sound look at the ground underneath and around the black power canister before and after it detonated. Very little disturbance even on the surface.

Much like an ammunition cartridge loaded with smokeless powder until it is contained in something strong enough to allow pressure to build before it bursts it makes a lot of sound and smoke, but not much else.

A cannon is specifically designed to allow the burning propellant to build pressure to a high level in order to propel a projectile at speed.

Bury a 1lb can in a hole 12 to 15 inches deep in the back yard and a whole different scenario emerges.

The gasoline in your cars gas tank has significantly higher energy density than gun powder even smokeless gun powder.

orpington said:

So if one's car catches on fire after purchasing a pound or two of blackpowder, the detonating gas tank is likely more of a potential hazard than the detonation of the black powder containers? That was actually a scenario I envisioned when I created the original post. Such as a vehicle in flames, the gas tank explodes, creating localized damage, then the black powder containers combust and...

Except I really didn't envision it being as explosive as one would otherwise guess. If it was, I'm fairly certain this would have been headlines long ago: "Vehicle catches on fire with 2 lbs of blackpowder within. Windows blown out for two city blocks, 3 bystanders killed & 8 injured". Or something like that.

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How much of an explosion there would be really depends on how much powder there is.
Here's a video of a large amount of powder that was set off by static electricity. --->>> https://www.rightthisminute.com/video/rtmtv-when-handling-fireworks-goes-seriously-wrong
The man was badly burned and the storage shed exploded.
It's fireworks powder that isn't coated with graphite.
Jack's Battle Powder is Goex Reenactor Powder that also isn't coated with graphite.
It's 5FA powder, a.k.a. - fireworks powder.
Graphite can prevent such an occurrence by helping the static electricity pass over the grains of powder.

As far as I have heard and remembered, gunpowder for firearms is packaged in containers, either cans with folded unsoldered seams or in plastic jars with lotsa extra air space, that will more likely burn or poof without an explosive BOOM!

A latched military ammo box, sheet metal sides with meltable rubber gasket seal, should contain all bullets and casing as ammo burns off, venting gas around the lid after the gasket has melted off, without an explosion.

My aerosol paint cans are supposed to be a greater fire hazard to my household than my gunpowder or ammo.

In cartridges with Triple Seven or Pyrodex, I use large rifle primers or small rifle primers or small pistol magnum primers because that stuff is hard to ignite.

It may depend at least a bit on how we define "explosion". As I understand it, "low" explosives burn quickly while "high" explosives undergo chemical changes at a speed greater than sound. Gunpowder - both smokeless and black - are of the "low" type, but can behave similarly to the "high" type if adequately contained.

The video posted by arcticap is interesting in that it shows an explosion which seems to straddle the line. At first it is obviously just a fast burn, but at some point - when some of the gas is contained by the shed? When the lower bags of powder ignite and are compressed by the upper bags? - it becomes energetic enough to start breaking things. It also is apparent that the explosion was not of the supersonic kind which can tear apart steel - and people.

I probably keep more powder around than the HOA would really appreciate, but I keep it in its original containers and out in the open, so if it were to accidentally ignite it would burn rather than explode. In this way I feel no more guilt about storing gunpowder than I do propane, gasoline, or any of the other "low" explosives which are a routine part of life.

Thanks for clarifying.
The video made me think about what could happen if someone had a case of powder in their trunk.
There may be some degree of containment and shrapnel, perhaps more than created by the open shed in the video.
Maybe similar to how a natural gas leak can level a house.

orpington said:

From the following, obviously 36 barrels of gunpowder would have been sufficient to blow up Parliament:

https://www.history.com/topics/british-history/gunpowder-plot

It is routinely documented how explosive black powder really is, or is it? I think that one can own up to 5 lbs of black powder legally (I thought it was 4 lbs until I googled it).

It seems to me if it is that explosive, but I'm not arguing that it isn't, one wouldn't be allowed to own more than one pound of black powder at a time.

Has anyone witnessed the explosive properties of one (since black powder is sold in 1 pound containers) to five lbs of black powder? For example, if I was stupid enough to fling a cigar butt into 1, 2, 3 4, or 5 lbs of black powder into an open container in my garage, whould it blow out the windows, blow out the garage, level the house, etc.?

Or, thinking of this yet another way, let's say one purchased one pound, or even 4 or 5 lbs of blackpowder, and, on the way home, the vehicle was in an accident, and it detonated. What would happen?

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Where do you reside? Your state may have further restrictions, but the federal regulation restricts individual possession of black powder for sporting purposes to 50 lbs. Not five pounds. The seeming fixation with its danger and how much one should be "allowed" to possess is a point of view infrequently held by firearms enthusiasts. And as noted above, given that you are "allowed" to possess tens and tens of gallons of highly dangerous and explosive gasoline, one wonders how concerned we should be about that and how much gasoline you should be "allowed" to possess given the explosive energy of only a few gallons...

Black powder is an explosive. If contained, it will explode. The more contained, and the more securely contained, the greater the blast. It is still used as a blasting agent. It is regularly transported and can be sent via UPS and FedEx. It is best to avoid storage or transport that exposes it to a higher risk of potential ignition.

Carl N. Brown said:

As far as I have heard and remembered, gunpowder for firearms is packaged in containers, either cans with folded unsoldered seams or in plastic jars with lotsa extra air space, that will more likely burn or poof without an explosive BOOM!

A latched military ammo box, sheet metal sides with meltable rubber gasket seal, should contain all bullets and casing as ammo burns off, venting gas around the lid after the gasket has melted off, without an explosion.

My aerosol paint cans are supposed to be a greater fire hazard to my household than my gunpowder or ammo.

In cartridges with Triple Seven or Pyrodex, I use large rifle primers or small rifle primers or small pistol magnum primers because that stuff is hard to ignite.

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I’ve read maybe just a few people’s accounts like yours, and find it puzzling as I’ve used Pyrodex (P/RS) almost solely in my muzzleloader as I don’t like the fouling and I was just breaking it in anyway, but I also used a fair amount through my ROA , as well as 3F Triple 7 using Rem #11 mags and Rem #10’s with never an issue.

arcticap said:

Thanks for clarifying.
The video made me think about what could happen if someone had a case of powder in their trunk.
There may be some degree of containment and shrapnel, perhaps more than created by the open shed in the video.
Maybe similar to how a natural gas leak can level a house.

Click to expand...

I assume that there is some way of determining what kind of result could be expected from various amounts of powder in various levels of containment. I also assume it involves the kind of math that makes me feel very stupid. Maybe I'll stop putting powder in my trunk!

orpington said:

From the following, obviously 36 barrels of gunpowder would have been sufficient to blow up Parliament:

https://www.history.com/topics/british-history/gunpowder-plot

It is routinely documented how explosive black powder really is, or is it? I think that one can own up to 5 lbs of black powder legally (I thought it was 4 lbs until I googled it).

It seems to me if it is that explosive, but I'm not arguing that it isn't, one wouldn't be allowed to own more than one pound of black powder at a time.

Has anyone witnessed the explosive properties of one (since black powder is sold in 1 pound containers) to five lbs of black powder? For example, if I was stupid enough to fling a cigar butt into 1, 2, 3 4, or 5 lbs of black powder into an open container in my garage, whould it blow out the windows, blow out the garage, level the house, etc.?

Or, thinking of this yet another way, let's say one purchased one pound, or even 4 or 5 lbs of blackpowder, and, on the way home, the vehicle was in an accident, and it detonated. What would happen?

Click to expand...

On your last question, you’d be f****d.

The can in the video looked like a pretty good thump. As said, you would not want it confined so it could generate frag.
Pre-dynamite "blasting powder" was gunpowder made with sodium nitrate (Chile Saltpeter) instead of potassium nitrate. Cheaper and more energetic but not as resistant to damp.

I knew a couple who had a 4 lb caddy of Winchester Ball powder, one of the shotgun grades, ignite in the trunk of their car. The theory was that the metal end of the caddy got in contact with a bare taillight wire. The pressure buildup blew the back seat into the cabin. The front setbacks shielded them from the flame. They were not hurt but they were not comfortable.

.38 Special said:

I assume that there is some way of determining what kind of result could be expected from various amounts of powder in various levels of containment. I also assume it involves the kind of math that makes me feel very stupid. Maybe I'll stop putting powder in my trunk!

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Some folks think that the fireworks factory powder that exploded was not black powder at all, but was Flash Powder.
Flash powder is highly sensitive to static electricity. --->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_powder

Sorry for the confusion. I didn't know the difference.

odds are you have far more dangerous stuff to worry about. I know I have a gallon of acetone, and 2 gallons of gasoline, and a few spray cans of paint, and I get they would do far more damage than all the powder I have. Never worry about your car, 5lb of powder is WAAAYYYY safer than 70lb of gasoline the average car is carrying.

Bob Willman said:

Bury a 1lb can in a hole 12 to 15 inches deep in the back yard and a whole different scenario emerges.

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Did that when I was 15 or so. In the garden. i was blown 30 feet or so and the peas landed on the house. I couldn't scrape enough dirt together to fill the hole before Dad came home....

whughett said:

ATF regulations allows for up to 50 pounds. On line dealers I’ve purchased from have a shipping limit of 25 pounds in one shipment.

And to add. You can mix and match. Primers percussion caps and powder in one box.

Click to expand...

ATF and some states allow 50 lbs. MN is 25 lbs on your property.

mjsdwash said:

odds are you have far more dangerous stuff to worry about. I know I have a gallon of acetone, and 2 gallons of gasoline, and a few spray cans of paint, and I get they would do far more damage than all the powder I have. Never worry about your car, 5lb of powder is WAAAYYYY safer than 70lb of gasoline the average car is carrying.

Click to expand...

Gas as a liquid only burns. It’s the vapors that can explode. A match thrown into an open container of kerosene will go out. Same match will never reach the liquid gasoline as the airborne vapors will ignite. Heck grain dust, flour dust, right combination with air, dust and spark kaboom.