New York hunters

Hps
Last week it was in the low 20s with some snow, the past few days has been in the low 40s with off & on rain so walking in the leaves is really quiet..
The southern tier of Upstate New York use to be mostly family farms that are converting back to woods from lots of decades of no apriculture takeing place. It is over run with deer and with a latge deer herd there are lots of coyotees.
Between myself, my brother and two sons we have four buck tags and twelve doe tags. We only harvest two deer from an area then leave that spot alone until next year. So there are lots of deer in that area to replentisg what is harvested.
If we see gut piles we will move on to another area.
We have alot more open hunting land here then you have down there in Texas. New York is split up in to wildlife management units. We are in #7, there is over 100 State Forest to hunt on from arount 500 acres up to over 11,000 acres and some of this land is perfect deer habitat. I deer I shot a couple of days ago was harvested over in the Bobell State Forest.
Yesterday we hunted the Bumps Creek State Forest. Some one shot a buck there, i came across a deer kill site. Thery completly dressed the deer off where they shot it. The guts, four lower legs, hide, head with antlers cut out, and full skeliton. All the meat was cut off the bones.
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We will hunt that area until we come across another gut pile then stay out of there until.next year.
This state forest is just over 500 acres and is mostly hardwood, beechnut, oak, cherry, hard maple with a few mixed in pine & hemlock.

My oldest brother was in the army and served over twenty years, three tours over in Vietnam. At the end of his service he was stationed in Texas. They lived in kileen. They lived out of town and had a five acre lot. Way back then about thirty years ago in that area it cost to much to hunt private property so he never hunted there. >'m sure it is worse now with high prices to gain acess on ranches to hunt.
This area it is easy to gain acess on private land to hunt & trap on.
I take a month off of work every year to fly out here to deer hunt and visit my family.
We will.be selling our house in Washington, forty miles north od Seattle and will be moving back to New York. Probably some where in Chenango County, cheaper taxes and excellent deer hunting and there are snowshoe rabbits there. > love rabbit hunting with a pair of beagles, love coon hunting too.
Our place will sell for around $325.000, we owe $40,000 on it so we will have close to $275,00 to buy a place back here.
I can buy a four bedroom house on twenty-five to thirty-five acres for around $180,000.

I will probably buy a beagle pup next spring and get it started on rabbits out there in Washington so when we move back here it will be trained out and be ready to hunt.
I have a couple old Ithaca model 66 in 20 gauge
That I like to use when hunting rabbits. One ofvthem has a vent-rib.
I might pick up two 20 gauge Ithaca pumps and two 20 gauge semi-auto shotguns for small game hunting.
I take my grandson out to shoot every weekend from spring to late fall. We go for the day, from 8 am until it starts to get dark. I reload so he gets to shoot a lot all day long. Centerfire rifles, centerfire handguns, rimfire rifles & rimfire handguns. At nine years old he can shoot better then most adults.
I have a old Stevens 20 gauge side by side double barrel shotgun he uses to shoot trap with. He can hit them pretty decent for just starting out shooting clay pigeons.
I raise pigeon (white racing homers) for doing white dove releases for weddings, funerals and memorials so I raise plenty of culls( white birds with dark feathers). So when he gets better on the clay pigeons he can shoot the real deal and we will have pigeons for diner.
We are raising three of our grandkids, mason which is 9 years old, a 8 year old granddaughter and a 2 & 1/2 year old granddaughter.
I thought my kid raiseing days were over twenty years ago but things in life change. You never know what lies around the next corner in life.

Over in Greene New York there are two round dairy barns built in the early 1900s. Still in good shape.

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Next trip to Greene I will get a picture of the other round barn, they are pretty neat.
 
You guys are gonna love permethrin. Terminix told me they use it for flea control; I'm sure stronger strength than Sawyer blend, which IIRC says active ingredients .5%, 99.5% inert. (If you mix your own, be sure to read a label as to mix, as it's been quite a while since I mixed up a gallon). The industrial grade has a small booklet which gives various strengths used in cattle barns, kennels, & spraying various animals. I've also bought Sawyers @ Cabelas' as well.

Sure would be hard to move quietly with all the leaves on the ground. Down here it's more mesquite twigs. Looks like the grandson is enjoying himself, HL. :thumbup:

Just got in from meeting our son at the ranch where I help with predator control and my wife packed a picnic "Thanksgiving dinner". My son went out in search of some venison, saw a couple of bucks that were either too big or too small to shoot while I made 2 dry stands calling coyotes.
On last stand, when I switched to coyote pup distress right after sundown, the brush lit up with one large pack about a mile SE and two or three singles that sounded like they were from 200 to 500 yards away.

A doe and two yearlings paid little attention to the pup distress, but spooked when the pack lit up. Shortly thereafter a herd of half dozen javelina wandered across the sendero, but if the coyotes came in to the call it was after dark. Sure felt good to get out again, though, even if I didn't see any predators. Been needing to check my jeep as last time I was able to get up was Jan. 24th due to Covid running rampant down here. (The ranch is in a county which has averaged over 700 new cases/day for about 10 days.)

I keep mothballs under hood to keep packrats from eating wiring and hoses and I was afraid of what I would find. Was pleasantly surprised that there was still a few mothballs left and everything was intact. I'm sure the cat tracks in the layer of dust on my hood is partially responsible for the lack of rodent activity (cook has a huge house cat which hangs out at the mess hall, but obviously ranges down to the pole barn from time to time).:) The jeep fired right up, in spite of 10 months of neglect.
Hopefully, it won't be that long until I get back.

Troy, that .308 BAR is beginning to step up to the plate in replacing my pet AR. Appreciate the tip.
Almost got my first triple with it in Jan., dropping two and either knocked one down or cracked a 110 close enough over his head to make him stumble to the ground (between 225 & 250 yds). He hit the ground at the shot but bounced right back up and got into the brush before I could get on him for follow up. Couldn't locate exact spot where he stood and found no blood, so could have been the latter??

You guys leave a few for seed, ya hear?

Regards,
hps
I'm glad your liking the bar, if they were cheaper I'd pick one up myself. To bad Browning doesn't have a switch barrel model that would be cool.
 
Pat did Jim get that behind his house. I'd like to know what that place charges to make the stuff up.

I worked on that press today, got it unstuck and all cleaned up and added a grease fitting and replaced the e-clip that was missing. I have to call rcbs someday and order the clip to hold the shellholder in.
 
I had one jump on my neck and climbed up to my left ear. I tried squishing it and missed it. My brother killed it right before it went in side my ear canal.

Not sure if permethrin would help in that particular situation, as it is not for use directly on skin; only treating clothing and let dry before wearing. Never had a tick jump down here, always got them by brushing against bushes/leaves, they simply brush off on clothing. If one landed on bare skin and crawled up on me, it would not encounter permethrin. They sure won't stay on cloth that has been treated. I usually apply pretty liberally around collar and waistband and tuck trousers in snake boots.

Neat old barn! Have never seen one similar, but guess that would be designed to avoid snow load on roof? Sure hate to have to put a roof on it.

My oldest brother was in the army and served over twenty years, three tours over in Vietnam. At the end of his service he was stationed in Texas. They lived in kileen.

Good ol' Ft. Hood. Spent 7 years in TANG in 112th ACR and 49th AD and did summer training there. Beat heck out of Bliss or Polk. Almost no public land in TX but we could hunt on post after jumping through all the hoops.

Leasing does have one advantage (once you get past the price of entry) and that is you have a certain amount of control over who else hunts the property (not the case w/day leasing, of course). I'm pretty particular as to firearms safety and like to know safety habits of those I hunt with. Public land doesn't offer that choice. I managed several deer leases over the years and made it a point to select those invited to become lease members accordingly.

Jim shot a doe this morning. About a thirty yard shot.
Jim looks like he's still having fun! :)

Wife and I had to come home last night, but my son stayed at the lease. He called this morning and got his turkey (he hunts deer with his dangerous game rifle (says this .416 Rem. is his most accurate hunting rifle and he maintains his proficiency by hunting it year round). This is the 2nd turkey he's taken with it, both neck shots. He didn't get a picture of this morning's turkey, but the last one I was with him at the time and took following picture. Bullet hit where neck joins the body and no meat was lost. Sure wish I had set the camera for video at the time....you should have seen the plume of feathers! This morning's shot was just a bit higher, he said.
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He did send this picture of what he estimated to be 4.5-5' rattler. Temps are in the high 80's so the creepy crawlers are active. Back in camp he said he also saw a 6' Indigo crawling under the steps to bunk house. I feel even better about the rat situation at the pole barn now, between the cat and blacksnake. Bunk house and mess hall are only 50' or so from the pole barn. Maybe the blacksnake has something to do with the cat tracks on my hood??:rofl:
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He does not kill rattlers (I do; don't know where I went wrong! :thumbdown:), so this one is still out there.

troy fairweather said:
I'm glad your liking the bar, if they were cheaper I'd pick one up myself.

It's not an AR, but we're getting there. Didn't fit me at all until I shortened stock and added adjustable cheek piece. Had to switch scopes to a Burris Fullfield E1, 3-9x40 to get proper eye relief w/the BAR cast in rail.
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Accuracy doesn't match the AR which shot 3/4 moa groups off bags on demand. The BAR will put four out of five there, but there is always 1 flyer to open the group up to 1.25 moa with a 110 grain Nosler Varmageddons. Everything else I tried in it so far shoots about 2 moa, but the 110's are strong coyote medicine. More of a mental thing in the field but those sub moa groups give lots of confidence to make the longer shots off sticks. I'll say one thing about it, it eats everything I've put through it.

The trigger is in bad need of attention, being more like a shotgun trigger...lots of creep. Still trying to make up my mind what to do with that. Heard you can send trigger group to Timney and they'll tune it and return pretty promptly, but haven't contacted them yet.

Happy hunting,
hps
 
Not sure if permethrin would help in that particular situation, as it is not for use directly on skin; only treating clothing and let dry before wearing. Never had a tick jump down here, always got them by brushing against bushes/leaves, they simply brush off on clothing. If one landed on bare skin and crawled up on me, it would not encounter permethrin. They sure won't stay on cloth that has been treated. I usually apply pretty liberally around collar and waistband and tuck trousers in snake boots.

Neat old barn! Have never seen one similar, but guess that would be designed to avoid snow load on roof? Sure hate to have to put a roof on it.



Good ol' Ft. Hood. Spent 7 years in TANG in 112th ACR and 49th AD and did summer training there. Beat heck out of Bliss or Polk. Almost no public land in TX but we could hunt on post after jumping through all the hoops.

Leasing does have one advantage (once you get past the price of entry) and that is you have a certain amount of control over who else hunts the property (not the case w/day leasing, of course). I'm pretty particular as to firearms safety and like to know safety habits of those I hunt with. Public land doesn't offer that choice. I managed several deer leases over the years and made it a point to select those invited to become lease members accordingly.


Jim looks like he's still having fun! :)

Wife and I had to come home last night, but my son stayed at the lease. He called this morning and got his turkey (he hunts deer with his dangerous game rifle (says this .416 Rem. is his most accurate hunting rifle and he maintains his proficiency by hunting it year round). This is the 2nd turkey he's taken with it, both neck shots. He didn't get a picture of this morning's turkey, but the last one I was with him at the time and took following picture. Bullet hit where neck joins the body and no meat was lost. Sure wish I had set the camera for video at the time....you should have seen the plume of feathers! This morning's shot was just a bit higher, he said.
View attachment 958576

He did send this picture of what he estimated to be 4.5-5' rattler. Temps are in the high 80's so the creepy crawlers are active. Back in camp he said he also saw a 6' Indigo crawling under the steps to bunk house. I feel even better about the rat situation at the pole barn now, between the cat and blacksnake. Bunk house and mess hall are only 50' or so from the pole barn. Maybe the blacksnake has something to do with the cat tracks on my hood??:rofl:
View attachment 958577
He does not kill rattlers (I do; don't know where I went wrong! :thumbdown:), so this one is still out there.



It's not an AR, but we're getting there. Didn't fit me at all until I shortened stock and added adjustable cheek piece. Had to switch scopes to a Burris Fullfield E1, 3-9x40 to get proper eye relief w/the BAR cast in rail.
View attachment 958578

Accuracy doesn't match the AR which shot 3/4 moa groups off bags on demand. The BAR will put four out of five there, but there is always 1 flyer to open the group up to 1.25 moa with a 110 grain Nosler Varmageddons. Everything else I tried in it so far shoots about 2 moa, but the 110's are strong coyote medicine. More of a mental thing in the field but those sub moa groups give lots of confidence to make the longer shots off sticks. I'll say one thing about it, it eats everything I've put through it.

The trigger is in bad need of attention, being more like a shotgun trigger...lots of creep. Still trying to make up my mind what to do with that. Heard you can send trigger group to Timney and they'll tune it and return pretty promptly, but haven't contacted them yet.

Happy hunting,
hps
Maybe worth to send it out to timmny, most of the Browning have funny triggers I've never minded them but you notice them more when shooting from a solid rest.
I like how your bar looks, I like a shorter lop myself and like long eye relief scopes.

my dad hated polk, think he was in the old ww2 barracks on the south side and they were pretty fun down in the early 80s when he was there. Said it was a nice time to be in tho lost of new equipment was coming out then, he helped with most of the improvements the m88A2 had.
are friend was at ft hood before going over to nom, he did have anything bad to say about hood.

Wish we could shoot Turkey with rifles here, I never have much luck but see them all the time deer hunting.

is like to get more info coyote hunting, we have a lot around here. Hard finding places to hunt tho. I'm Sullivan county here they do a coyote shoot every year, you get $100 per dog and biggest gets $2500 i believe tho I think you could sell the fur from one in prime for more.

I think for now on I'll be using the 17hmr for squirrels after October 1st when we can start shooting the coyote. I'd like to pick up a 243 for them to, probably get another m18 mauser since I like them.
 
Maybe worth to send it out to timmny, most of the Browning have funny triggers I've never minded them but you notice them more when shooting from a solid rest.
I like how your bar looks, I like a shorter lop myself and like long eye relief scopes.

my dad hated polk, think he was in the old ww2 barracks on the south side and they were pretty fun down in the early 80s when he was there. Said it was a nice time to be in tho lost of new equipment was coming out then, he helped with most of the improvements the m88A2 had.
are friend was at ft hood before going over to nom, he did have anything bad to say about hood.

Wish we could shoot Turkey with rifles here, I never have much luck but see them all the time deer hunting.

is like to get more info coyote hunting, we have a lot around here. Hard finding places to hunt tho. I'm Sullivan county here they do a coyote shoot every year, you get $100 per dog and biggest gets $2500 i believe tho I think you could sell the fur from one in prime for more.

I think for now on I'll be using the 17hmr for squirrels after October 1st when we can start shooting the coyote. I'd like to pick up a 243 for them to, probably get another m18 mauser since I like them.

I'm getting used to the trigger little by little, it's somewhat like the old 2 stage triggers I cut my teeth on in the 50's w/all the cheap milsurps. If there was a bit more pronounced "2nd stage", I could live with it very nicely, but if you take up the creep too briskly, you're apt to trip it a bit prematurely. I'm sure if I was able to hunt as often as I did up until a couple years ago, would get accustomed to it and it would be fine, but, alas.....

Ft. Hood is much prettier country IMO than Bliss (desert) and Polk (piney woods/swamp). Hood is great armor terrain. Ft Polk would be good terrain to put the M88's through their paces:). I was 81mm mortar Plt. Sgt. and fortunately never had to call on tank retrievers but did bury a borrowed deuce and a half up to the frame in some quicksand on side of a hill, of all places. Broke through the thick layer of pine needles and sank like a rock. Fortunately, the motor Sgt. was following our unit in an M75 APC and yanked us out (the 75's had supercharged engine; much more torque than the M59's my platoon had). The 49th AD was activated for the Berlin crisis and we were stationed @ Polk in 61-62. Same old WW barracks. Only pictures I could find of the old barracks is way in the background to the left. The single story building, also WWII vintage was Battalion HQ.
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Troy, I was a deer hunter all my adult life, but deer just started to lose their shine about 10 years ago with the center buck which measured 169.9". A year or two later took the one on the right which was just over 150 IIRC. Any rate, I realized it was highly unlikely I would ever see, let alone take a bigger whitetail, so took up exotics and what proved to be my true love, predators.
30628003077_89f7936cb2_c.jpg 45517388482_32479ebb19_c.jpg

The bigger animals net lots more meat so don't need but one every couple of years. I do love to hunt so took up coyote hunting to fill the void. IMO, there are few critters as smart/challenging to hunt than coyotes and what a thrill to see them charging in to the call!

If you think you might be interested in learning to call, you will find lots of great advice here and shortcut the learning curve by months, if not years.
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=83113&page=1

Fur is no good down here, so main benefit of thinning the herd is maybe saving a few fawns, etc. Trapping is recognized as a much more effective predator control tool, but calling is a lot more fun:) and the ranches I hunt combine the two with a retired state trapper. Some get educated to the trap, and some get educated to the call, so the two are more effective. Here's one that obviously lost a foot to a trap and would likely not fall for that again. Didn't slow him down one iota coming to the call, however as I couldn't even detect a limp as he approached at the gallop.
35677806635_91f09e50df_o.jpg

I've used .223, 243 WSSM, .308 specifically for coyote calling and would personally choose the .223 if I saved the pelt; the others are not so fur friendly. Most shots in the brush country are probably 100 yds. give or take. I rarely shoot beyond 200 yards, but have taken them occasionally @ 300 + w/the 243. The .17 will kill a coyote but I prefer a bit more oomph.

Good hunting,
hps
 
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Jim shot it over on state land. We have that doe I shot half way cut up, just the hind quaters to cut down to take over to Shaffs tomorrow.i will snap a shot of the products they make with the prices per pound and post it on here. They process it as it comes in with a four or five day turn around. If you want to stay up here again we can pick you up on Sunday and take you back down to Walton when you have to go back.

Next week we will be looking for property for a hunting camp over in Chenango County and looking at houses to see what we would like when we move back here.
 
I'm getting used to the trigger little by little, it's somewhat like the old 2 stage triggers I cut my teeth on in the 50's w/all the cheap milsurps. If there was a bit more pronounced "2nd stage", I could live with it very nicely, but if you take up the creep too briskly, you're apt to trip it a bit prematurely. I'm sure if I was able to hunt as often as I did up until a couple years ago, would get accustomed to it and it would be fine, but, alas.....

Ft. Hood is much prettier country IMO than Bliss (desert) and Polk (piney woods/swamp). Hood is great armor terrain. Ft Polk would be good terrain to put the M88's through their paces:). I was 81mm mortar Plt. Sgt. and fortunately never had to call on tank retrievers but did bury a borrowed deuce and a half up to the frame in some quicksand on side of a hill, of all places. Broke through the thick layer of pine needles and sank like a rock. Fortunately, the motor Sgt. was following our unit in an M75 APC and yanked us out (the 75's had supercharged engine; much more torque than the M59's my platoon had). The 49th AD was activated for the Berlin crisis and we were stationed @ Polk in 61-62. Same old WW barracks. Only pictures I could find of the old barracks is way in the background to the left. The single story building, also WWII vintage was Battalion HQ.
View attachment 958600
Troy, I was a deer hunter all my adult life, but deer just started to lose their shine about 10 years ago with the center buck which measured 169.9". A year or two later took the one on the right which was just over 150 IIRC. Any rate, I realized it was highly unlikely I would ever see, let alone take a bigger whitetail, so took up exotics and what proved to be my true love, predators.
View attachment 958601View attachment 958602

The bigger animals net lots more meat so don't need but one every couple of years. I do love to hunt so took up coyote hunting to fill the void. IMO, there are few critters as smart/challenging to hunt than coyotes and what a thrill to see them charging in to the call!

If you think you might be interested in learning to call, you will find lots of great advice here and shortcut the learning curve by months, if not years.
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=83113&page=1

Fur is no good down here, so main benefit of thinning the herd is maybe saving a few fawns, etc. Trapping is recognized as a much more effective predator control tool, but calling is a lot more fun:) and the ranches I hunt combine the two with a retired state trapper. Some get educated to the trap, and some get educated to the call, so the two are more effective. Here's one that obviously lost a foot to a trap and would likely not fall for that again. Didn't slow him down one iota coming to the call, however as I couldn't even detect a limp as he approached at the gallop.
View attachment 958608

I've used .223, 243 WSSM, .308 specifically for coyote calling and would personally choose the .223 if I saved the pelt; the others are not so fur friendly. Most shots in the brush country are probably 100 yds. give or take. I rarely shoot beyond 200 yards, but have taken them occasionally @ 300 + w/the 243. The .17 will kill a coyote but I prefer a bit more oomph.

Good hunting,
hps
Some great pictures, dad had some photos of polk and his m88 but we're lost in the 2011 flood, he had a picture of a gar he shot that I think was stuck in one of the levee, he shot it with the m2 on the 88. In the picture it was as long as his 88s tracks, dad said they were around 21-22 feet long.

lucky for me I'm fine with just shooting does, a buck is just a bonus. I shot my lifetime buck when I was 15, dad and his buddy estimated it to be close to 200" . We were living in northern Alabama at the time. Unfortunately the buck rolled down the ravine I shot it at, it rolled in the the next property and the owner would not let me have the deer.

a 223 would be nice, tho there aren't many 223 bolt guns I like other then the cz rifles. I did load up some 40hps for my ar-15 if I do try the state land for some coyote, not optimal with the red don't tho.

Thanks for the link, I'd like to get one of them rabbit in distress calls I think that will work good. I don't have the money for a electric caller.
 
It doesn't get much better than an AR if you can use one where you hunt. My favorite load for the .223 was 55 gr. NBT and H335. Didn't do a lot of pelt damage but very effective. Shot a lot out to 200 and a bit more. The red dot might limit range some but in the woods shown in your area, wouldn't be bad at all.

Have called a lot of coyotes with hand calls. Some claim they are even better than electronic calls where hunting pressure is heavier because of educated coyotes getting used to standard recorded calls. Amazing how far a coyote can hear a simple "lip squeak".

A feather tied to a short thread or light string can make a good decoy to distract a coyote from spotting you. Like us, their attention is attracted to any slight movement. Using a hand call, they will know your exact location before they get a visual and looking up at a movement can give you the time to get on them when they are looking away.

Have fun! :thumbup:

Regards,
hps
 
Troy
We stopped over to Shaffs Custom Meats and dropped off some meat to get processed in to venidon sticks, sausage links and kielbasa. They quit doing picked sausage because they can not get the jars.
Here is a picture of their price list.

20201128_100745.jpg
 
Troy
We should get the stuff by the end of next week. I will give you some to try out.
Are we on for a few days this week?
 
I use permethrin in my pigeons drinking water to get rid of internal parisites and then another dose at nine days.

I use the plastic oil drain pans for them to take a bath in. I use luke warm water and add some to that for external parisites.


Daniel
We will be hunting the Beaver Meadows State Forest this week if you want to meet up.
I will be calling the DEC to see if they have any doe tags for that set of woods.
 
I use permethrin in my pigeons drinking water to get rid of internal parisites and then another dose at nine days.

I use the plastic oil drain pans for them to take a bath in. I use luke warm water and add some to that for external parisites.


Daniel
We will be hunting the Beaver Meadows State Forest this week if you want to meet up.
I will be calling the DEC to see if they have any doe tags for that set of woods.
I don’t think I’ll have time during the week until Friday.
 
Lets plan on Friday, Saturday of Sunday depending upon the weather.
I will check on doe tags for that set of woods.
 
Well guys, I missed a shot at a doe this morning and though I know it’s “the bad Workman blames his tools” part of my brain wants me to get rid of this crap cannon and save for another rifle lol

What cannon you shooting.

Sorry about your doe, I've only been out once and saw one spike buck, did manage to put him down though.
 
It’s a sporterized mosin

I know a few guys with mosins, never shot one though, how does your stock fit, do you have a pad on it? Or the original butt plate?

I've got a 7mm08 rem 700, that's becoming my favorite, it's taken 3 so far in the last 2 years and 6 in the last 4. Also have 2 m11 savages, a 243 and 223. Have not hunted with the 243 yet just picked it up earlier this year from Troy's dad, fory 16 yo granddaughter to hunt with. Couldn't get her her hunter coursein time for season. The 223 accounted for a doe last season. Then there's my Ar that still has to go hunting.

Been shooting 300 meters with all 4 this fall, usually start in match and shoot straight through till opening day, but not this year.
 
Yeah I mostly hunt with this because I’ve been too broke to buy a decent rifle past few years. I might just see if my dad will let me borrow his 30-30

I know about being broke, bought most of mine on layaway. Took time to have in hand but not so much out of pocket all at once. Evenly Ar lower and that was only 81.00 after tax. There are a few I. This area that let you buy that way, probably some in your area as well. Especially smaller shops.

Borrowing a your fathers rifle might be a good option and the 3030 is no slouch.
 
I have close to 20 or so rifles and my H&R handi-rifle with the 243 barrel has become my favorite deer gun. The 308 barel for it justs sits in the gun cabinet.
The guy Jim rents from has a New England handi-rifle in 223 I think I might buy for $250.
I brought back a Ruger 77 in 25/06 that I took out one time, I take the H&R out every day now.
If I buy that 223 I'll use that until I kill a deer with it.
 
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