380 Auto - Are primers flattened?

I would like to hear what others think.

Federal F-100s are soft, try some CCI 500s.

Yes, they look flattened to me. The normal 'round' edges of the primer look square. You also have primer flow around the firing pin strike, but this could occur for several reasons and in itself is not something to be concerned with at the present.

Why are they flattened? Hard to say. Your load data looks okay. Maybe your chamber is a little tight. It might be a headspace issue. I guess I don't see that anything is obviously wrong. Maybe all ammo will come out of that gun looking like that. Compare it with factory ammo, and use Federal ammo to match the primer type - if you can.

It's only a problem if it causes problems. It does not look like a problem at this point.

Not flattened. no primer flow. What you see is the result of a chamfered FP hole in the breechface.

Shootem up!

drband said:

Not flattened. no primer flow. What you see is the result of a chamfered FP hole in the breechface.

Shootem up!

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I was wondering if it had to do with the breech face.

They are fine. You really can not "read" pistol primers until it is much to late, then you have BIG problems.

Shot some factory ammo if you have any and compare. If your data is correct you are good to go.

Nope, "normal" looking. Flattened primers are just that, flat. No rounded edges at the corners and the primer cup has flowed completely into the pocket, flat. But primers aren't a really good indication of pressures as some guns will produce "flattened" primers with extra light loads (revolvers). And as Rule 3 noted; by the time you see truly flattened primers a your loads are waaaay over max, I have 4, 9mm pistols and two older ones "flatten" primers a bit. one of my 45 ACPs, a 1911 clone, pops out brass with what some call "flattened" primers. None of my loads near book max. and none are over pressure...

Normal looking, especially for the very soft Federals.

Let me re-emphasize what Rule3 said. Please do not reply upon "reading" primers for any measure of personal safety.

I'm loading that same bullet with 3.1 grains of W231 but shooting it in a G42. Takes that much power to get the G42 to function properly. I haven't had any problems with that load after many thousands of rounds. I'm using CCI primers but mine look the same.

3.1 is over max in Lyman FYI. Others disagree. I load 3.1 in mine and it works well.

Kcoof might have a point, but they look cratered to me. Hard to really tell in pictures.

I've loaded a ton of .380 over the years and they look fine IMO.

I was loading 231/HP-38 in the 380 with 95gr cast lead, 102gr cast lead and 100gr plated, all in the 3.0gr range in a S&W EZ380 and a Witness Pavona 380. yours look the same as mine. Though the 3.1gr by Hodgdon data is at max so I would keep a close eye on it.

Rule3 said:

They are fine. You really can not "read" pistol primers until it is much to late, then you have BIG problems.

Shot some factory ammo if you have any and compare. If your data is correct you are good to go.

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rfwobbly said:

Normal looking, especially for the very soft Federals.

Let me re-emphasize what Rule3 said. Please do not reply upon "reading" primers for any measure of personal safety.

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I agree with Rule3 and rfwobbly.

The ring around the firing pin indent is probably due to the hole in the breech face being a bit larger than the firing pin allowing the primer to flow into the opening. It is nothing to do with excess pressure.

I pay more attention to recoil, brass ejection location, and accuracy than reading primers. You say it is about the same as factory and accurate. All good if I was making those rounds.

BB in Texas said:

All produced good groupings and recoil was comparable to factory ammo.

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I use a chrono but go by subjective metrics like this as well. Those primers look “reasonable” for Federals. My son’s LCP look very similar. Good luck.

Reading pistol primers

American Rifleman | Safety Recall: Smith & Wesson M&P9 and M&P380 Shield EZ Handguns

Just in case you haven't seen this.

I agree the cases/primers look ok - for a pistol that will handle a little pressure. I'd even say they look about right for the load.

I'll relate an experience with a well known national brand, a very compact .380 pistol. I went to the reloading manual. Found a load that looked good which was a bit more than mid but below max. Loaded up a bunch. Went out and started banging away when the slide departed the frame. Called the manufacturer, got another pistol, blah, blah. Got rid of that brand. Got a better pistol, no problems.

I haven't looked into the manual that comes with the Shield EZ and can't tell you what's actually written on ammo use, but I can guess they discourage hand loads and want everything within SAAMI standards. There isn't a SAAMI standard for .380+P, and it's hards to get a firm handle on where loads in reloading books start to edge up against the standard except that they are all "within SAAMI standards".

The point of all this is that cheaper pistols won't stand higher pressures as a steady diet. I'm not saying this is the case here. Just be aware that the hotter the load, the higher the wear on the gun. If it starts to shoot "loose", send it and get it checked.

Normal. My go-to load for 100 grain FBRN or HBRN 380ACP and Win231 is 3.1 grains at 0.980 oal.

NMexJim. I have no fear of loading max load 380 in my 380EZ or my Witness Pavona. With the Pavona or a Beretta 84 Cheetah I wouldn't fear Plus P 380 loads listed on Western Powders data either. Not that O would load those for myself because neither I or the guns need that extra pressure and abuse.

1KPerDay said:

3.1 is over max in Lyman FYI. Others disagree. I load 3.1 in mine and it works well.

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The Lyman W-231 maximum load of 2.9 grains you quote are for a 95 grain FMJ and an overall length of 0.900 inches. The OAL tested is less than the SAAMI minimum of 0.910 inches, which would reduce the maximum load.

The next bullet listed is a 100 grain FMJ. The OAL used for this bullet was 0.955 inches, still shorter than the OAL of 0. 970 used by BB in Texas. The maximum load for this bullet using W-231 is 3.5 grains. As this bullet is heavier than the bullet used by BB and his OAL is longer, 3.1 grains of W-231 should be fine.

The primers look fine to me, but it's a little difficult to see from the photo. Taking the photo at an angle rather than from directly above would make it easier to see any flattening.

I used 3.2 grains of W-231 with a 95 grain lead round nose, and all was well in a Ruger LCP.

Shoot 'em.

The load the OP used is from Hodgdon. It is fine.

kmw1954 said:

NMexJim. I have no fear of loading max load 380 in my 380EZ or my Witness Pavona. With the Pavona or a Beretta 84 Cheetah I wouldn't fear Plus P 380 loads listed on Western Powders data either. Not that O would load those for myself because neither I or the guns need that extra pressure and abuse.

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And that's fine. I have no doubt you can, and, in fact, I've used overpressure loads myself in a common Bersa w/o problem. I didn't put a lot of 'em through, and that's maybe the point.

Kahr and Beretta (there may be more by now) both rate their 380 for +P even if there is no such a thing by SAMMI standards. I own a couple of Kahrs and, if you can stand it, they can stand it. But, I have personal experience with a particular pistol, in fact, several of that particular pistol before I gave 'em up. To the user beware.

To my knowledge, there are only four calibres rated for +P and those are 38 Spc, 38 Super, 9mm, and 45 ACP. +P in anything else is "non-standard". The question here is a max load out of a manual and a +P load closing in on being the same and will the gun take it. All I can say is that I have personal experience that says "No". You may not or at least not yet.