Why the .44 Special

For the _same_ energy, the heavier bullet has more momentum. But.... lighter bullet can be driven to higher energy....usually.

pairof44sp said:

I’d like the definitive answer to light and fast vs heavy and slow in a handgun, given equal muzzle energies. What’s the difference on the target end of the equation?

I guess it’s time to buy a gel block and start experimenting.

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The .357 needs to expand to be effective enough to be compared to the big bores. For that you need velocity. For that you need tall columns of slow burning powder and high pressures. The result of this greater velocity and pressure, is greater muzzle blast at a higher pitch. Not just loud but ear splitting. The big bores get the same job done without all that, by virtue of mass and diameter. They don't need to expand and flat nosed cast bullets yield all the terminal performance required without the need for high velocity.

Energy is a meaningless number, useful only in marketing velocity.

CraigC said:

The .357 needs to expand to be effective enough to be compared to the big bores. For that you need velocity. For that you need tall columns of slow burning powder and high pressures. The result of this greater velocity and pressure, is greater muzzle blast at a higher pitch. Not just loud but ear splitting. The big bores get the same job done without all that, by virtue of mass and diameter. They don't need to expand and flat nosed cast bullets yield all the terminal performance required without the need for high velocity.

Energy is a meaningless number, useful only in marketing velocity.

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I had kind of come to the same conclusion without having the knowledge, based on gut feeling. Hence these 44spl wadcutters for carry:

+1 on 357mag revolvers and ear protection. I, once again, decided to leave hunting camp this season with my trusty 357 and no ear plugs. I let 2 shots off on a snowshoe hair I bagged and was abruptly reminded why I bought a big bore. My ears were a ringing!!!!!

For my 5" 357
I shoot 158's @ 1400fps plus (I assume)
I shoot 170's @ 1300fps verified
Both of these loads are downright painful to unprotected ears. I mean, to the point I'm mad at myself for an hour or two of walking through the woods with ears ringing and earaches.

Besides the noise, I do like 357.

44 special however, loaded in a Revolver strong enough to handle it, is a damn sweet woods cartridge with a 240gr cruising along @ 1100fps. In my opinion, it is a substantially better option than a 45auto with a little heavier bullet, with a little better bullet construction options, going a little faster. All these little betters add up.

pairof44sp said:

I had kind of come to the same conclusion without having the knowledge, based on gut feeling. Hence these 44spl wadcutters for carry:

View attachment 965153

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That will "lay the smack down" without making your ears bleed.

Of most importance, to me, the 44 special for woods use should be a chosen gun which is more compact and easier to pack then a 44 magnum. It also needs to be able to handle the stouter loads.

98s1lightning said:

Of most importance, to me, the 44 special for woods use should be a chosen gun which is more compact and easier to pack then a 44 magnum. It also needs to be able to handle the stouter loads.

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Aren’t all the heavy-duty 44 spl the exact same size as a 44 mag? L frame and up?

No. The Keith load may be used in Colt SAA-sized single actions. Even the N-frame .44Spl's are a few ounces lighter than their .44Mag brethren.

Problem with the factory Ruger .44Spl's is that they gave us what we wanted. For years we bellyached about the aluminum grip frames on Blackhawks. Only to find out that it was what made an Old Model .44Spl conversion so light and handy. The all steel New Models are nearly as heavy as their large frame counterparts. We still dig `em though.

Difference between these two is considerable.

tipoc said:

On page 2 of this thread someone explained that the 44 Spl. has been for many years a niche cartridge. This is true and remains true. Revolvers in 38 Spl, 357 mag, 44 magnum and 45 Colt and 45 acp continue to outsell guns in 44 Spl. alone. True some of the 44 Mag guns only, or mainly, see 44 Spl.

It is not alone is being a niche round it keeps good company. 41 mag and 41 Spl. are niche, even more so than 44 Spl. 44 Russian is still being commercially sold and loaded for. Various versions of the 38 Colt are being sold. The 32 mag is niche. There are a few more revolver rounds still niche. With semis there are more. Being niche is no bad thing and the company is fine. just means you ain't the most popular kid in school.

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One thing I noticed about gunfighters: the young ones use various different cartridges.

The old ones all use 44 Special.

Take from that what you will.

(keeping in mind that I just made it up!)

I'd rather be shooting a .50 Bowen.....

(Medium frame) Ruger Flat top Blackhawk 44 special is an off the shelf factory gun. A little heavy, like Craig mentions, but DEFINITELY more handy/packable than some double action options.

I found the S&W 296 .44 spl. to be too much of a "good" thing tho ! The thing really recoiled obnoxiously more than the Charter Bulldog (which I have a beautiful very accurate Bridgeport and a nicely made early stainless one) which was just enough smaller to make the 296 selling material along with it's rare 242 .38 spl. sister and I got good bucks years back for them. Also my 5" .44 handejector got sold in it's case with the 3" HE on Gunbroker this year as they just were sitting in the safe more than 10 years without use. The new lady owner on the East coast loves them ! I got a good stimulus check . Keeping my Colt New Frontier 7,5" .44 spl RIFLE ! It shoots like a rifle !!!

I love my Flattop .44spl! I didn't care for the 43oz weight, so I put an alloy grip frame on it and reshaped it and the grip. I also put an alloy ERH on it and a Bisley trigger. It slimmed it down to under 35oz unloaded. Feels great! I just learned to reload this year on this "SPECIAL" cartridge!

Gordon said:

I found the S&W 296 .44 spl. to be too much of a "good" thing tho ! The thing really recoiled obnoxiously more than the Charter Bulldog (which I have a beautiful very accurate Bridgeport and a nicely made early stainless one) which was just enough smaller to make the 296 selling material along with it's rare 242 .38 spl. sister and I got good bucks years back for them. Also my 5" .44 handejector got sold in it's case with the 3" HE on Gunbroker this year as they just were sitting in the safe more than 10 years without use. The new lady owner on the East coast loves them ! I got a good stimulus check . Keeping my Colt New Frontier 7,5" .44 spl RIFLE ! It shoots like a rifle !!!
View attachment 965195

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242? I thought I’d heard of everything with the 296! How many obscure, small-run revolvers did Smith make?

296 is my grail ccw, but you just made me feel better about not buying one (due to hi prices)

Biblethumpncop said:

I love my Flattop .44spl! I didn't care for the 43oz weight, so I put an alloy grip frame on it and reshaped it and the grip. I also put an alloy ERH on it and a Bisley trigger. View attachment 965207 It slimmed it down to under 35oz unloaded. Feels great! I just learned to reload this year on this "SPECIAL" cartridge!

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Quite a difference replacing those two parts! That got the weight down to what my 4”, S&W 1917 weighs. A good weight for carrying.

Kevin

pairof44sp said:

242? I thought I’d heard of everything with the 296! How many obscure, small-run revolvers did Smith make?

296 is my grail ccw, but you just made me feel better about not buying one (due to hi prices)

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the 242 looked identical except ".38spl +P" 7 shot ! They are L frames and just a little too big to be a pocket rocket AND the bore axis is pretty high over the grip compared to a CA Bulldog This .296 is on gunbroker for $999

pairof44sp said:

I had kind of come to the same conclusion without having the knowledge, based on gut feeling. Hence these 44spl wadcutters for carry:

View attachment 965153

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Are those factory loads and where do I get some?

Crosshair said:

Are those factory loads and where do I get some?

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Here is the first entry after I ran a search for 44 Special wadcutter ammunition.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100151850

Kevin

I imagine catching one of those might just spoil one's plans for the day. Probably leave a mark too.....

Crosshair said:

Are those factory loads and where do I get some?

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ha ha Like every other gun thing that seems like Goldilocks to me, “there’s just no market” for hot wadcutter loads.

Any other 2020 new gun enthusiasts out there who found out what they charge for ammo and said, “you’ll never catch me buying that stuff, not when someone already told me about the Lee Classic Loader you can get for $30.”

StrawHat said:

Here is the first entry after I ran a search for 44 Special wadcutter ammunition.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100151850

Kevin

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I wonder how many of those a Charter Bulldog could survive.

Also, what exactly can a fancy revolver cartridge do to make it worth $2.00 each? It seems like once you have been careful about weighing your powder, there isn’t much you can do to make your ammo “higher quality.”

Gordon said:

View attachment 965231 the 242 looked identical except ".38spl +P" 7 shot ! They are L frames and just a little too big to be a pocket rocket AND the bore axis is pretty high over the grip compared to a CA Bulldog This .296 is on gunbroker for $999

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I saw that in gunbroker and thought that the blue thing was some kind of commemorative medallion with a golden flame.

Aw hell, just load up some swaged hollow base wadcutters.... backwards!

pairof44sp said:

I wonder how many of those a Charter Bulldog could survive.

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According to the maker: "This load was developed to be used in ALL/ANY 44 SPL firearms including Charter Arms. Our other heavy 44 SPL loads exclude the Charter Arms as suitable for use with them."

pairof44sp said:

Also, what exactly can a fancy revolver cartridge do to make it worth $2.00 each? It seems like once you have been careful about weighing your powder, there isn’t much you can do to make your ammo “higher quality.”

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Sure there is. Buffalo Bore is not mass produced ammunition, made in a huge factory. A lot more care is taken and tolerances are much better. Buffalo Bore also takes more care in the powders they use so toe the line in terms of performance and pressure. Which is why they're 'perceived' to be overpressure. Most their ammo, such as the link above, is not overpressure. Most the factory stuff is underpressure. Crap like Winchester white box is the antithesis to this. Mass produced and watered down for a broad safety margin, to make it cheap. Which is the opposite of "good".