44 Spc V. 45 Colt
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black mamba
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I have been shooting and reloading for both calibers for over 45 years, and agree completely with Craig C and 35 Whelen. Both are capable of taking medium game in their standard loadings, but the larger diameter 45 Colt needs the larger platform to achieve it's ballistic advantage. Comparing the same weight and velocity in both cartridges gives you a slightly bigger hole with the .45 and slightly deeper penetration with the .44, so basically a wash. The more easily achieved accuracy of the .44 is a very real consideration, and why I would choose the .44 Special.
According to John Linebaugh, the cylinder walls in the Model 25 N-Frame and the Ruger are the same, but that is not the issue:
That is from
"Gunnotes...Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5 By: John Linebaugh"
Elmer was rather specific and stated the one load he would use in the 45 long Colt. That was the Remington black powder loading. After his death when his revolvers were unloaded, the SAA was indeed loaded with those loads.
He felt the factory loads in smokeless were inferior to the Remington back powder load.
KMN
The incident of EK blowing up a SAA in 45 long Colt had nothing to do with the revolver. His evaluation of the incident hinged on his loading a 300 grain bullet (intended for the 45-90 cartridge) on top of a full case of superfine black powder, possibly over compressed. The weaker case head of the case gave way and the resulting escaping gases took off the loading gate and several other bits of the revolver. And something cut his hand.
Yes, he did continue his experiments with the 44 S&W Special but he was successful in blowing up more than a few of them also. Folks think the 45 was the only revolver he destroyed. He successfully removed at least a couple of boxes of revolvers from circulation!
KMN
Yes, he did continue his experiments with the 44 S&W Special but he was successful in blowing up more than a few of them also. Folks think the 45 was the only revolver he destroyed. He successfully removed at least a couple of boxes of revolvers from circulation!
KMN
Gordon
Member
Sorry I can't buy that as so may .44 magnums have used 40,000 psi loads for so many years, only known problem was the bolt system allowing movement with many heavy loads . It is also rather suspect to say S&W does not heat treat their N frames . But don't want a pissing match over this. I also believe the bolt cuts are directly over chambers of .45Colt and are real thin . Suffice it to say; if the revolver model also is offered in .454 Casuall it is safe in .45 Colt Chambering for high pressure loads, Like the Ruger Super Black Hawk ect. I have Colt New Service .45 Colt revolvers and I keep the pressures down being aware for the last 50 years of high pressure loads in them opening up the cylinders .
35 Whelen
Member
I've read this many times on various forums. I've also read SIXGUNS from cover to cover, with the exception of the chapter on Ornamentation. I recall EK wrecking the Colt SA you mention, and one other SA 45 Colt as he fired some celebratory rounds on the 4th of July. I suppose I could've missed it, but I don't recall him destroying any .44 Special's, or any other revolvers, for that matter. If you know where in said book this info is located, I'd love to know so I could add it to the many pages I have dog-eared in mine!
35W
GeoDudeFlorida
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Beat me to it. I use Red Dot or Bullseye for light loads.
BobWright
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I have both .44 Special and .45 Colt revolvers. After over fifty years of trying, I can't really decide. I'll keep on tryin', though.
Forty-fives:
Forty-fours:
Bob Wright
Forty-fives:
Forty-fours:
Bob Wright
Vern Humphrey
Member
But Keith was using the SAA, and that's a weak design. The metal at the top of the bolt stop notch in .45 Colt is only about .01" thick. He went to the .44 Special and got .02" -- a 100% increase. If he had had a Blackhawk, I suspect he would have stayed with the .45 Colt.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
People keep saying this but there would not have been a large frame Blackhawk without the .44Mag.
I'm not sure of the time line history of the balloon head case, but I'm sure that it would limit the maximum loading of a particular cartridge.
I know the 45 Colt had balloon head cases for a time after the introduction of smokeless powders, I'm not sure of the history of the 44 Special case.
The 45 Colt has benefited from moving the case design and rim dimensions to current standard designs that have allowed it to have more potential.
I know the 45 Colt had balloon head cases for a time after the introduction of smokeless powders, I'm not sure of the history of the 44 Special case.
The 45 Colt has benefited from moving the case design and rim dimensions to current standard designs that have allowed it to have more potential.
pairof44sp
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Howdy pardners, pardon if it's already been discussed, but someone who knows please tell the rest of us the basics on moonclips, speedloaders, with regard to 44 vs 45 colt
Keith was a very prolific writer & wrote a whole lot more than just his few books.
Also - Keith had some very avid fans as well as some very vocal detractors. A lot of what Keith (probably) said over the years may be hearsay - not that it means anything anyhow, no matter how absurd it might sound.
Keith was notable for having someone else mention one of his exploits, then without confirming it or not confirming it, say something unrelated to what happened - that was unmistakable for his being there.
Like his 600 yard deer shot.
Someone else may be relating the story, and turn to Keith for confirmation - only to have him say something like, "Yeah, it was sure cold that day wasn't it".
TK Custom (http://tkcustom.com) has moon clips for 45 Colt and 44 Magnum S&W revolvers. I'd expect the 44 Magnum clips should work with current manufacture 44 Special cases but one should check with them.
I did not look to see if they make those cartridge clips for other brands of revolvers.
You would have to send the cylinder to have the breech face machined to accept the moon clips. TK Custom can do that work.
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Moon clips work best with short stubby cartridges. It is what they were designed for. Long skinny cartridges, like any of the Special or Magnum rounds, tend to wiggle too much and misalign with the charge holes.
Not saying don’t do it but thought you would prefer to know the negatives and the positives.
Kevin
Not saying don’t do it but thought you would prefer to know the negatives and the positives.
Kevin
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I have several 38 Special revolvers machined for moon clips. They load just fine and easy, no better or worse than speed loaders. But you do need bullets that the nose that extends past the case mouth. Some kind of rounded ogive works best as SWC bullets can hang up a bit on the shoulder.
Full wadcutters take some juggling and jiggling to get all the cartridges lined up.
Barry the Bear
Member
My original post was in regards to a phrase "WWEKD?" We know what he did there is no need to speculate.
My own preferences are simple. For a big bore non-stressed revolver that will do anything I want here in Il, I'll take my 45 Colt or my 44 special Blackhawk or 624. For deer hunting on my little farm, the three screw Super or 29-2. For me, I dont hot rod any more. I don't begrudge others their fun, though.
A lot of people go thru a progression. Back when I was young and only had the 45 Colt Blackhawk and 44 Mag Redhawk they both saw "mild to wild" now that I'm older and have SAAs and dedicated 44 specials, there's no +p 45 Colt loaded here and all the 44 Mag is 240@1150 or better.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
All I've ever done is use what I needed. Match the tool to the job. I seldom loaded heavy just for the hell of it. I've known folks that are all hardcore, all the time. For them, light to moderate loads and rimfires are all an affront to their seemingly delicate manhood. Not only is that a severe limitation but it'll eventually catch up with you.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
For me, 45 Colt is for single action revolvers, 44 Special is for S&W double action revolvers.
But that's just me.
For me, 45 Colt is for single action revolvers, 44 Special is for S&W double action revolvers.
But that's just me.
the Black Spot
Member
I like 44 for hunting, the 45 for defense
Flatbush Harry
Member
Twenty years ago, I acquired a pair of .45 Colt Ruger Vaqueros which were built on a Super Blackhawk frame. I tried Cowboy Action shooting with "Cowboy" loads (800 fps loads). CAS turned me off quickly but the old model Vaqueros could be loaded up to nearly .454 Casull levels, per the Hornady "for Ruger and Thompson Center Loads" section. Accordingly, I developed fairly warm .45 Colt loads which I used for woods carry when hunting. I once had a .44 Mag Super Blackhawk more than 40 years ago. It was very comfortable to shoot with .44 Spl, somewhat less so with full house .44 Mag loads. I would opt for the .45 Colt using Cowboy equivalent loads for range work and some Remington "Home Defense" loads in .45 Colt for carry. I only rely on factory ammo for personal defense applications out of an unmodified firearm. I had a prosecutor friend who once told me that one of his standard questions in any firearms case that involved hand loads or custom guns was "why did you feel the need to use that " 'Zombie Killer gun' or 'Killer ammo'?"
YMMV,
Harry
YMMV,
Harry
I have owned both and find them more alike than different. At SAAMI pressures, the 45 can produce a bit more power.
For reloading standard pressure loads, I prefer the shorter case of the 44. The loading densities are typically a bit better, and it seems to produce a little less residue.
For reloading standard pressure loads, I prefer the shorter case of the 44. The loading densities are typically a bit better, and it seems to produce a little less residue.
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