Indoor Range head trauma?

A guy was shooting a .44 magnum revolver next to me at an indoor range. It did indeed give me a painful headache that lasted a few hours.

I've been muttering "Pardon Me What Did You Say" ever since my Marine Days. The VA deposits in my bank account a monthly disability payment. I'm also inadvertently really good at reading lips.

My friend knows the feeling.
It thankfully doesn't bother me.

He limits his time in a indoor range to about an hour. After that he'll get a headache after. The normal stuff typically won't effect him. But that AR10 10" pistol next door was annoying.

I've been that arse before.
With a 24" .338 lapua mag and a .338 win mag both with a jp tank brake. I've cleared neighboring benches.

Fired the win mag indoors and was promptly moved to the un-occupied side of the range. Was mildly unpleasant behind the rifle. Don't wanna imagine what it was like on the side.

short answer, yes. Many years ago, I read something about facial bones acting to transmit sound... don't remember the DB, but it was supposedly near "service cal" range. But sensory perception is more than just what it seems at the moment you feel it. If it bothers you, tone it down, I know lots of deaf people, or shaky people who laugh at "the wuss" who doesn't like noise and recoil. Just like those who won't have a stock modified to make a shotgun more comfortable, or put thingrips on a 1911. Being in an ego competition with yourself is really a loosing battle. As for other people at the range... your screwed on that. My range doesn't have a time limit, so I wait them out. Keep it fun. I have to bring up this guy though, so everyone remembers:https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/firing-ar-15-horrifying-dangerous-loud-article-1.2673201

Hangingrock said:

I've been muttering "Pardon Me What Did You Say" ever since my Marine Days. The VA deposits in my bank account a monthly disability payment. I'm also inadvertently really good at reading lips.

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A friend went out on 40% disability from hearing loss. Something louder than a rifle, details not forthcoming. Just in time to miss Kuwait, which he seems to regret.

Even outdoors and double-protected, having M-4’s fired over my right shoulder several times in a row training in entry stacks over the years has certainly scrambled my eggs a few times.

Now I can’t stand being in an indoor range when AR-15 or AR-10 rifles are fired. But, beggars can’t be choosers sometimes so there are occasions when I have to grit my teeth and bear it if I want to shoot locally.

As for headaches, I don’t get them from shooting. But I do take courtesy measures like not shooting uncoated/unplated lead bullets indoors because the cloud of smoke has caused others near me to start chittering about it.

Stay safe.

kmw1954 said:

Can't remember where I found it but there was a study done on hearing protection and they found no advantage of doubling up with ear plugs and muffs.

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I think that depends on how they define "no advantage." If your muffs seal perfectly, then maybe not, but a lot of people's don't, for a variety of reasons: facial hair, oversize eye protection, etc. So the second line of defense is a pair of good-fitting, high-rated plugs.

The only time I don't double up is when I'm shooting a .22 rifle alone. Then it's plugs only.

I would get headaches shooting my rifle wearing plugs and muffs. The headaches stopped after I started shooting with my mouth slightly open. I don’t know if it has something to do with air pressure but it worked for me.

I got high lead levels from shooting once a week club matches. I stopped that and they went back to normal after a couple years.

If it makes you feel bad, I’d quit doing it.

I worked last winter with a couple guys who were in the States from India for a few months. Neither of them had ever even touched a gun before, and they were both completely fascinated. A few days before they left for home I took them shooting at an indoor range. They could not get their earplugs to fit right, and they both kept removing them, despite other people shooting. I kept telling them to put their earplugs back in, but they were not bothered by the noise at all. I guess we’re all made differently. If it bothers you it bothers you.

NuShootr said:

In order for there to be damage to the brain, the head has to be hit and and the brain has to be stopped fast enough that the brain will hit the skull. It doesn't take a lot to do that, but the concussive force from a pistol or rifle would really have to be high to cause this to happen.

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"An animal study demonstrated mild brain injury in pigs and rats from blast overpressure from artillery (155mm howitzer), anti-tank weapons (Carl Gustaf 84mm recoilless rifle “bazooka”), and high-caliber military rifles (M82A1 Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifle). Small hemorrhages in the brain, increasing with blast intensity, were seen in 21 percent of pigs exposed to M82A1 .50 caliber rifle fire and 7 percent of those exposed to Carl Gustaf fire, even after as few as three shots from the weapons."

https://www.cnas.org/publications/reports/protecting-warfighters-from-blast-injury

hso said:

You may be thinking that the NRR isn't additive and that you only have a net gain of 5dB from doubling up instead of doubling the NRR when you double up. It is also important to understand that each 5 (or 3) dB reduction represents a halving of the pressure since we're dealing with logarithms. So, that extra from double protection is still cutting the pressure by half even if the gross number isn't doubled.

Wear plugs under muffs. You're hearing will benefit.

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What you have posted here and in the previous post at #28 seems very familiar and I believe is what I had read to base my opinion though I my have misunderstood some of what I had read. I do also believe that study mentioned facial bones as a sound and wave transmitter as mjsdwash also mentioned.

For myself, I have not doubled up on ear protection since working Flight Lines in the USAF.

Old hearing aides, like my grandfather's, were attch behind the ear and transmitted sound thru the "mastoid process", the bones behind the ear. A rifle stock does the same thru the cheek weld. I use a double thickness strip of "moleskin" under my cheek. Helps locate consistent cheek weld, and it is warmer in the winter.

I believe a study showed the "off ear" was most damaged by the air blast pressure; thus a right handed rifle shooter got blast damage to left ear.

When I got my hearing aides, I asked for a second set of ear impressions to use as plugs. They are a little tricker to fit at first, but since they are shaped to my ear, theydo fit, they are better than commercial plugs.

Double up with muffs for rifle, shotgun or handgun...works grrrrrate!

I hate shooting indoors. I would rather shoot in the cold.

Standing in the ready room Observing oldest son shooting a 44 full bore magnum thru an observation window at my gun club. Each time he fired that window, two plexi glass panels set three inches apart, visibly bowed outward. Sound waves or pressure wave from the muzzle blast.?
Even out door shooting at the public range I am sensitive to the muzzle blast from an adjacent shooter big bore hand gun. Essentially deaf the noise isn’t an issue.

I've heard that alot of hearing damage occurs from the sound not just going through your ears, but being absorbed through the bone next to your ear. Not exactly my real of expertise but the last instructor school I went to recommended wearing much bigger ear protection to cover more of that area. If you can feel it then something isn't right.

Don't get hit in the head by a return target carrier.

I'm happy that this thread poo poohed brain damage from shooting indoors... The last thing we need inscribed on a firearm...

"Warning, the surgeon general has determined that brain damage can occur firing handguns indoors"

Goosey said:

"An animal study demonstrated mild brain injury in pigs and rats from blast overpressure from artillery (155mm howitzer), anti-tank weapons (Carl Gustaf 84mm recoilless rifle “bazooka”), and high-caliber military rifles (M82A1 Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifle). Small hemorrhages in the brain, increasing with blast intensity, were seen in 21 percent of pigs exposed to M82A1 .50 caliber rifle fire and 7 percent of those exposed to Carl Gustaf fire, even after as few as three shots from the weapons."

https://www.cnas.org/publications/reports/protecting-warfighters-from-blast-injury

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I specifically put in my response that the concussive force of a pistol or rifle would have to be high to cause that kind of damage. Honestly though, that's plain cruelty to animals. What a ridiculous study.

I recently had to have a Brain Scan based on the picture I posted. It was interesting to be told by the neuro surgeon, that read the scan, about a few MTBI from Non-Direct Exposure to Blasts. We also completely revamped our indoor range due to the amount of members being tested and showing lead exposure at dangerous levels. One of the areas was UNDER tables and chairs where cleaning was not normally done.

rkittine said:

Don't get hit in the head by a return target carrier.

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Ouch. I’ve walked into ones left mid lane, at my club and when they hit the stopper in front of the position it bangs, but that’s I first someone getting beaned. 6 staples.

Only 5 staples, but who's counting? Was not actually a target carrier. Couldn't pass the opportunity though. I put the flaps down on one of my planes and during preflight, I bent down to check something, stood up that was the result. I did have the brain scan and they did find the trama that I posted.