.38Colt&S&WSpec?

I'll have to look to verify, but I believe the cartridge rims are different thickness

Seems like the biggest difference is the case diameter .3865 vs. .379

Howdy

First off, are we talking about the Mason Conversion? There were four cartridge conversion revolvers that Colt made before building the Single Action Army in 1873.

Colt cartridge conversion revolvers were all of open top construction. Some were built using parts in stock from earlier Cap & Ball revolvers, some were built with a combination of old and new parts, and the last one was completely built from scratch with new parts.

Anyway, there was the Thuer Conversion which used a strange reversed taper cartridge to get around the Rollin White patent on revolvers with bored through cylinders to accept cartridges. This one was a commercial failure and nobody that I am aware of is making a reproduction of it.

Next came the Richards Conversion, using parts from C&B revolvers in stock but with either a new cylinder or the early ones had C&B cylinders that had been modified to accept cartridges.

This is an actual Richards Conversion revolver. Notice the large extractor assembly mounted to the side of the barrel.






This model had a frame mounted firing pin and the hammer was modified with a flat face to strike the firing pin.






Next came the Richards-Mason Conversion. William Mason, who was the principle designer of the SAA, made some modifications to the Richards Conversion which included making a simpler ejector, and getting rid of the frame mounted firing pin. Sorry, I do not have one in my collection, but you can google it for photos.



Finally came the Open Top only produced during 1871 and 1872. This one is distinctive with the rear sight mounted to the rear of the barrel.


Anyway, Colt and S&W for a long time did not want to put their competitors names on the barrels of their revolvers. Smith and Wesson invented the 38 Special Cartridge in 1899, but always marks their barrels 38 S&W Special. Colt on the other hand did not want to put the S&W name on their barrels. Colt sometimes marked their barrels 38 Colt Special.

All three names, 38 Special, 38 S&W Special, and 38 Colt Special are the same cartridge with different names. Just plain 38 Special is most common today, I don't think I have ever seen a box of recently manufactured ammo marked 38 Colt Special. Not 38 S&W Special either.

Yes, 38 S&W is a completely different, and older cartridge, with a shorter and slightly larger diameter case and larger diameter bullet. Absolutely not interchangeable with the 'Specials'.

Modern 38 Short Colt is simple a 38 Special case cut down to ~.765 length. It is perfectly safe to shoot in any modern 38 Special revolver. 38 S&W SPEC is sort of an old way to designate 38 Specials but I am pretty sure that refers to 38 Special not 38 S&W.

38 S&W on the other hand is very close to the same size cartridge as 38 Short Colt at a glance but is slightly longer and slightly larger in diameter. The biggest distinction is that modern 38 Short Colt use .357 diameter bullet same as modern 38 Special and 357 Magnum. 38 S&W use a larger .361 diameter bullet.

The original 38 Short Colt was different than the modern cartridge of the same name and used heeled in bullets (like a 22LR) , and were larger in diameter (.380?) and was intended for some 36 caliber cap and ball revolvers with cartridge conversion cylinders but there are vanishingly few people loading that version of the cartridge anymore. Modern 38 Short Colt is popular with UPSPSA and ICORE revolver shooters.

What they said. My Open Top clone is .38 Special / .38 Colt

Notice the rear sight on the rear of the barrel of the Open Top. Small, and slightly difficult to see in that photo, but it is there.

When these questions pop up it’s always good to remember the.38S&W Special is a lengthened, more powerful .38 Long Colt. By the time S&W developed their morel powerful smokeless round the.38 LC had been internally lubricated for almost 20 year. It’s also good to remember the.38 Short Colt will not chamber in a .38 Long Colt and vice versa. But any .38 Special will chamber and safely fire a .38LC. The two rivals may have enjoyed (or not?) renaming their opponents cartridges but the specifications are immutable. A .38 Colts Special is a .38 S&W Special is a lengthened, more powerful .38 Long Colt.

Driftwood Johnson said:

Notice the rear sight on the rear of the barrel of the Open Top. Small, and slightly difficult to see in that photo, but it is there.

Click to expand...

——
You could have stopped after “see.”

"...38 Colts Special is a .38 S&W Special is a lengthened, more powerful .38 Long Colt."

38 Long Colt: "In 1892, it was adopted as a standard military pistol cartridge by the United States Army for the Colt M1892 revolver." and thus also known as the U.S. Service cartridge. S&W didn't want to advertise for Colt so double stamped their early 38 Specials like this:

GeoDudeFlorida said:

When these questions pop up it’s always good to remember the.38S&W Special is a lengthened, more powerful .38 Long Colt. By the time S&W developed their morel powerful smokeless round the.38 LC had been internally lubricated for almost 20 year. It’s also good to remember the.38 Short Colt will not chamber in a .38 Long Colt and vice versa. But any .38 Special will chamber and safely fire a .38LC. The two rivals may have enjoyed (or not?) renaming their opponents cartridges but the specifications are immutable. A .38 Colts Special is a .38 S&W Special is a lengthened, more powerful .38 Long Colt.

Click to expand...

Reference the bolded statement above. If we are talking about the original heeled in bullet version of 38 Short Colt then it probably is not a good idea to shoot them in a 38 Long Colt given the original .375 bullet diameter of the heeled in 38 Short Colt bullet will likely cause a pressure spike in the 38 Long Colt throat or barrel that is intended for .357 diameter bullets. That said 38 Short Colt would almost certain chamber in a 38 Long Colt chamber. It is correct that 38 Long Colt will not chamber in a 38 Short Colt chamber.

With regards to the modern 38 Short Colt that is currently being produced it is compatible with 38 Long Colt, and 38 Special, and 357 Magnum for that matter. 38 Short Colt, in many senses, is the parent case to 38 Long Colt, 38 Special and 357 Magnum. In the modern context 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38 Special and 357 Magnum brass all come off the same machines and differ only in their final trim length.

I have reloaded and shots thousand of rounds of 38 Short Colt in my S&W 627 (357 Magnum) in competition.

mcb said:

Reference the bolded statement above. If we are talking about the original heeled in bullet version of 38 Short Colt then it probably is not a good idea to shoot them in a 38 Long Colt given the original .375 bullet diameter of the heeled in 38 Short Colt bullet will likely cause a pressure spike in the 38 Long Colt throat or barrel that is intended for .357 diameter bullets. That said 38 Short Colt would almost certain chamber in a 38 Long Colt chamber. It is correct that 38 Long Colt will not chamber in a 38 Short Colt chamber.

With regards to the modern 38 Short Colt that is currently being produced it is compatible with 38 Long Colt, and 38 Special, and 357 Magnum for that matter. 38 Short Colt, in many senses, is the parent case to 38 Long Colt, 38 Special and 357 Magnum. In the modern context 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38 Special and 357 Magnum brass all come off the same machines and differ only in their final trim length.

I have reloaded and shots thousand of rounds of 38 Short Colt in my S&W 627 (357 Magnum) in competition.

Click to expand...

Modern, yes that is quite correct. The bullet in a modern.38 SC is considerably undersized for a Short Colt chamber. To the best of my knowledge no major manufacturers ever made a gun for the modern spec cartridge loaded with an undersized bullet. I was talking about the actual right specification chambers of guns made and marked as such.

When it comes down to it, the modern .38S&W box ammo is also undersized for most factory revolver chambers of the era when it was a popular cartridge. One of the reasons I reload .38S&W is so I can get proper chamber and groove fit. It tends to help accuracy a bit. I think you’re right that we need to remember changes made over time, too.

I think we have pretty well established the question the original poster had has been answered. He can fire standard 38 Special ammunition in his revolver.