Disappointment from Sig Sauer

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WrongHanded

WrongHanded

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After searching online for replacement recoil springs for my P224 (discontinued in 2016) and having no luck, I contacted Sig by phone.

The first call was a 20 minute wait on hold and resulted in me hanging up to get back to work. Then another 15 minutes of waiting got me to a real person in customer service. I'd hope to be able to buy a half dozen or so of these replacement recoil springs so that I needn't worry about them in the future (it's not a gun I shoot too very much).

Unfortunately, whilst I was told Sig still "supports" the model, it turns out that means they will only replace any part via a return to the Mother Ship. Having already sent this gun back once because the front sight tritium lamp broke during my first range trip (and the replacement did the exact same thing, promptly upon my next range trip), I remember they charged me $35 or so for shipping. Given that it's typically suggested a recoil spring be replaced ever 5000 rounds (though with this gun I'm not entirely sure), I suppose I could expect to pay the shipping, plus the spring cost, plus the gunsmith time, simply to replace what I can easily do myself.

No, they will not sell me any recoil springs or any other parts for this model of pistol they still "support". Fortunately (somewhat anyway), a foreign company called DPM Systems makes a replacement recoil spring assembly that only cost $107 plus shipping from a US seller. So there's that. Though it's a multi spring system with various spring weights, which is supposed to reduce felt recoil, yadda yadda yadda. Never the less, I ordered one.

Anyhow, I'm pretty disappointed in Sig. I understand the gun wasn't popular to begin with, but given this experience I fear it's only a matter of time before the same thing happens for other more popular models such as the P239. Get your parts whilst you can.
 
I could see where a company won’t sell parts for a gun they made because they would rather the firearm come to them so they can control how things are installed.

I’m surprised Wolff doesn’t catalogue springs for the P224, they make a bazillion different springs... I guess not enough we’re made to justify their R&D costs?

Good luck with your gun, hopefully it’s all dialed in.

Stay safe.
 
Riomouse911 said:
I could see where a company won’t sell parts for a gun they made because they would rather the firearm come to them so they can control how things are installed.

I’m surprised Wolff doesn’t catalogue springs for the P224, they make a bazillion different springs... I guess not enough we’re made to justify their R&D costs?

Good luck with your gun, hopefully it’s all dialed in.

Stay safe.
Click to expand...

I did check with Wolff, but that was a no go. They never bothered, and I'd assume you're correct about why.

The gun is actually functioning flawlessly right now I'm just looking towards the future. I actually bought the gun new in 2018 not knowing it had been discontinued. It doesn't have that many rounds through it, maybe only 1000, maybe a little more.

Certain parts I can understand a company not want ing to make available to the public for liability reasons. But a recoil spring shouldn't be one of them.
 
Maybe it's a *German Thing*?:evil:

I had several like instances with the last Mercedes I bought - consequently the last Mercedes I will EVER buy.

Even when it was a mere 3 years old (owned since new) they chose to individually cease to *support* aspects of the vehicle.

First was the navigation system. Really?!?

Then they tried to weasel out of faultily designed exhausts. This one really pissed me off as my ML55 has 4 cats, 2 mufflers and a resonator - generally speaking.

Later, they decided half-shafts were no longer their problem.

There were a couple more that I can't immediately recall but along with my experiences with BMW cars and bikes.... I get the sense that once a German company is done making direct money off of an item, they seem to give not a toss for existing owners. Even if they are still making the platform but changed the sub-systems - they have little if any rear-view. :cuss:

It really hurt too since the ML55 is an otherwise outstanding vehicle.

Todd.
 
Try asking around at SIGforum...I’ll bet somebody either has the spring, or knows of a suitable replacement.

it’s funny...I grew up shooting rattly old war surplus pistols. My first centerfire self defense pistol was a Polish Radom P35 with about 30% finish left, and plenty of evidence of both rough nazi production and rough service. It shot great, I should add. Who knows how many rounds of hot, corrosive SMG ammo went through that dark bore?
Anyway, nobody talked about changing springs unless something broke. Even in the gun mags I read growing up, it just wasn’t a topic.
 
People who own Kimber semi's will be replacing springs, per the company's recommendations, also. One reason I refuse to own one. Glad you told this experience because I had a vague interest in SIG.
 
Since you have to remove the recoil spring to clean the gun it seems absurd that they want you to ship them your gun. I would call back and try to get through to a technician and not just a customer service rep who is just reading off a script.
 
MAKster said:
Since you have to remove the recoil spring to clean the gun it seems absurd that they want you to ship them your gun. I would call back and try to get through to a technician and not just a customer service rep who is just reading off a script.
Click to expand...

So, an anecdote from an RSO/gun store salesman I know: He said Sig have become the new HK. My confused look got him to add something to the effect that they now have an attitude about their guns being perfect and the customer being in the wrong when there is an issue.

Now I don't know if that's accurate (or accurate about HK being that way), but I suspect it might be. I was firmly told they have no P224 parts for sale, but have a supply of parts for service work. What's the difference, right? It suggests to me that Sig Sauer no longer care about the owners of their discontinued models, and would strongly prefer to have those customers retire their guns and buy a new Sig pistol instead. But to make sure it doesn't seem like they're leaving owners out in the cold, they still "support" those pistols....in house only.

I have serious doubts that getting hold of a technician is going to result in them selling me some recoil springs. I got the impression that the way it is, is the way it is. Although perhaps their customer service has never been as good as some other companies. I've certainly not had good experiences thus far.
 
ApacheCoTodd said:
Maybe it's a *German Thing*?:evil:

I had several like instances with the last Mercedes I bought - consequently the last Mercedes I will EVER buy.

Even when it was a mere 3 years old (owned since new) they chose to individually cease to *support* aspects of the vehicle.

First was the navigation system. Really?!?

Then they tried to weasel out of faultily designed exhausts. This one really pissed me off as my ML55 has 4 cats, 2 mufflers and a resonator - generally speaking.

Later, they decided half-shafts were no longer their problem.

There were a couple more that I can't immediately recall but along with my experiences with BMW cars and bikes.... I get the sense that once a German company is done making direct money off of an item, they seem to give not a toss for existing owners. Even if they are still making the platform but changed the sub-systems - they have little if any rear-view. :cuss:

It really hurt too since the ML55 is an otherwise outstanding vehicle.

Todd.
Click to expand...
I looked up a master window switch for a '16 Cadillac XTS for a customer today. No stock remaining, no supercessions, not available. :fire:

Tesla just admitted publicly that they knew their universal control touchscreen would only last 5 years and they have no available replacements.

The new business model being embraced by all manufacturers is one of continuous obsolesence. Soon, you wont be given the option to own your cars (or guns), they will simply lease them to you and send you a new one every few years whether you want one or not......

Even the military is looking at eliminating a huge chunk of sustainment costs by only buying small runs of the most advanced systems, but considering them as attributable- that is to say reusable, but also disposable when no longer cutting edge or once they have reached the end of their maintenance cycle. In this manner they can put any money normally spent on spare parts or service into the latest and greatest new system, thus avoiding having large numbers of worn-out and increasingly old-tech legacy systems hanging around (which is exactly the mess the Pentagon is in now).

Of course, offsetting this trend will be the rise of products- cars, guns, pool pumps, tanks, whatever- designed from the ground up to utilize 3D printed parts. In the very near future, manufacturers will be able to sell you a (single use) digital pattern, and you (or a dealership/service center) will simply whip up new parts on the spot. No pesky warhousing inventories or freight shipping, no backorders- easy peezy.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Of course, offsetting this trend will be the rise of products- cars, guns, pool pumps, tanks, whatever- designed from the ground up to utilize 3D printed parts. In the very near future, manufacturers will be able to sell you a (single use) digital pattern, and you (or a dealership/service center) will simply whip up new parts on the spot. No pesky warhousing inventories or freight shipping, no backorders- easy peezy.
Click to expand...

That's doggone intriguing for most any market - guns included.:thumbup: Magazines - sights - buffers, etc...

Todd.
 
WrongHanded said:
I'd looked at that previously. Unfortunately, those are hammer strut springs. No recoil spring is included in the kit. Thanks though. :)
Click to expand...

I’d call them - they may be able to tell you what recoil spring would work.

Here’s someone else you can contact. He’s one of the best Sig Armorers in the business:

https://www.thesigarmorer.com/

I’m sure he can tell you what’s compatible.
 
H&K is the WORST for factory parts. It took our office nearly two years for new Mp5 spring kits a while back. I’ve heard from others two years isn’t unusual.

Too bad SIG forgot it’s Swiss lineage and succumbed to the German business model they’re apparently following now. Once you buy... good bye!

(And yes, Benz is also nearly impossible to get parts for. A good buddy was a loooong time MB USA employee, he railed for years about the factory making parts for assembly line cars... but no spares... until they’re ordered.)

Good luck with your P224.

Stay safe.
 
beag_nut said:
People who own Kimber semi's will be replacing springs, per the company's recommendations, also. One reason I refuse to own one. Glad you told this experience because I had a vague interest in SIG.
Click to expand...

And other 1911s of virtually the exact same design somehow do not need a new recoil spring from time to time? How would a Kimber need a new spring and another brand of 1911 not? Specifically other than a recommendation in the Kimber manual (to ensure a highest level of reliability) and the lack of a similar recommendation in the (some) others manual? I think Wolff recommends replacing their springs in 1911 every so often. I bought several and plan to buy additional Wolff springs.

I am surprised there is not an aftermarket to support the OPs pistol. Perhaps he can have the spring rate determined, the dimensions/specifications and have springs made and sell them to other unlucky souls. It is just a spring.
 
beag_nut said:
People who own Kimber semi's will be replacing springs, per the company's recommendations, also. One reason I refuse to own one. Glad you told this experience because I had a vague interest in SIG.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what Kimber’s recommendation is, and I don’t care. Maybe I’m not a people? I dunno.

I replaced my first Kimber spring after about 15,000 rounds, out of guilt, not malfunction.
 
Ru4real said:
I have no idea what Kimber’s recommendation is, and I don’t care. Maybe I’m not a people? I dunno.

I replaced my first Kimber spring after about 15,000 rounds, out of guilt, not malfunction.
Click to expand...
I bought two at the recommended intervals for my first Kimber. Can't say how far I am past the second change cut-off - or third spring's life span.

What I can say is this.... I still have both springs in the package and the original shows no sign of giving up any time soon.:D

I'll call them spares.

Todd.
 
Its a recoil spring, cannot image it would be that difficult to substitute something else. Is it one of their braided ones?
 
ApacheCoTodd said:
Maybe it's a *German Thing*?:evil:

I had several like instances with the last Mercedes I bought - consequently the last Mercedes I will EVER buy.

Even when it was a mere 3 years old (owned since new) they chose to individually cease to *support* aspects of the vehicle.

First was the navigation system. Really?!?

Then they tried to weasel out of faultily designed exhausts. This one really pissed me off as my ML55 has 4 cats, 2 mufflers and a resonator - generally speaking.

Later, they decided half-shafts were no longer their problem.

There were a couple more that I can't immediately recall but along with my experiences with BMW cars and bikes.... I get the sense that once a German company is done making direct money off of an item, they seem to give not a toss for existing owners. Even if they are still making the platform but changed the sub-systems - they have little if any rear-view. :cuss:

It really hurt too since the ML55 is an otherwise outstanding vehicle.

Todd.
Click to expand...

It may be a German thing. For myself, my preference has been General Motors with a couple of deviations to Ford. My wife wanted something a little more snooty so we got a BMW. There has been a train of petty problems like key fobs not working and the tailgate opening because of a poorly designed key fob. I takes a couple of presses on a button on my suburban to get oil life and tire pressure on my Suburban but quite a few more hoops on the BMW. My Suburban actually has an oil dip stick so I can check the oil anytime I like without having to find the right menu on the STUPID BMW screen. BMW won't give you a replacement key fob for a defunct one unless you provide an ID. We drove the car there so why wouldn't it be our car? Keep in mind, be bought the car at the same dealership and I can get a replacement key without an ID for my Suburban any time I like.

When the weather is bad, my wife likes to ride in the Suburban because she feels safer in it. LOL. Me too.

On a brighter note, I have the distinct impression that my wife doesn't want another BMW.
 
tarosean said:
Its a recoil spring, cannot image it would be that difficult to substitute something else. Is it one of their braided ones?
Click to expand...

No, it's a flat wound. But a larger diameter than that of the P239 or the flat spring that came in my Sig 1911. Whilst the braided spring for a P229 will fit the guide rod, it wasn't even close to allowing the slide fully to the rear. So even trimmed, I'm not sure a P229 spring would allow for correct function, but it might do.
 
beag_nut said:
People who own Kimber semi's will be replacing springs, per the company's recommendations, also. One reason I refuse to own one. Glad you told this experience because I had a vague interest in SIG.
Click to expand...

It does not matter what you own. If it has springs and you use it enough they will need to be replaced...I have never had any issues obtaining springs for my Kimbers and I don't have to send them in to get it done...
 
WrongHanded said:
No, it's a flat wound. But a larger diameter than that of the P239 or the flat spring that came in my Sig 1911. Whilst the braided spring for a P229 will fit the guide rod, it wasn't even close to allowing the slide fully to the rear. So even trimmed, I'm not sure a P229 spring would allow for correct function, but it might do.
Click to expand...

I would definitely start with an aftermarket 225/228/229 spring I dont believe the wolffs are braided. so that might give you extra room and start trimming...
 
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