Hot .38 or mild .357

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kalielkslayer

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I’m working on another caliber right now but in the near future I’m gonna start loading for my SP101.

I have 3 revolvers all chambered for .357. Ruger Security Six, Ruger GP 100 and the SP101.

Haven’t loaded for this caliber before but I usually shoot factory .357 in the S6 and GP 100. The SP101 has a 2.5” Barrel and I don’t really care for the recoil of a .357 in that gun so when I carry it, I carry +P rounds which are manageable.

As I start to reload for it I was wondering what would be better?

With the short barrel, I was going to go with a powder on the fast end of .38 powders. Any suggestions?
 
Is it a carry gun? I bought an SP101 for my wife. I would take her to the range and have her shoot .38spl and she enjoyed it. Otherwise it was loaded with .357mag for social work if needed.
 
Nowadays, probably 99% of my 357 loads (which by the way, was the first cartridge I started loading for back in the late '70s) are like 38 Special +P loads in 357 Magnum cases. I haven't always loaded 357 Mags that way - back in the '80s, my wife was using a 357 Magnum in IHMSA, and she needed just about all the horsepower a 357 Mag (a 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk) could churn out to tip over those 200 meter steel rams. But since then, neither of us much care for full-throttle 357 Magnum loads. We have a 41 Mag, 44 Mags, and a Ruger 45 Colt if we need more powerful revolvers.
I like Unique powder a lot for 38 Special +P loads in 357 Magnum cases.:thumbup:
 
Bris7617 said:
Is it a carry gun? I bought an SP101 for my wife. I would take her to the range and have her shoot .38spl and she enjoyed it. Otherwise it was loaded with .357mag for social work if needed.
Click to expand...

I carry the 101 frequently. I’ve shot this gun a lot. Follow up shots aren’t very quick with full bore .357 loads.

I’ve spent a lot of time shooting at 7 and 15 yards, speed loading with speed loaders, and my 15 shot groups are way better with .38+P loads, and slightly faster.

I need to chrono my loads, and shoot them at night. With the short barrel, I don’t know how much more velocity I’m getting.
 
My .357 loads generally are not as hot as they could be. That is in deference both to my old guns and my old hands. I like 13 grains of 2400 behind the 358156 GC quite a bit.

The same result can be had in a .38 case without much fuss. I'm not going to quote a load here, lest some fool Google it and then put them into a small frame .38, but the data is easily available to folks who want to search it out. For my money, a 158 grain bullet at 1200 fps is just about right for most things a handgunner might need, and in the proper gun can be achieved with either .38 or .357 brass.
 
The fastest powder you can find load data for will do an excellent 38 SP +P type load in a 357 mag short barrel gun. Generally speaking, the faster the burn rate the less the muzzle flash for a given speed. Some burn rate charts put accurate Nitro 100 near the fastest. As you can see from the info at the bottom of this post, even Nitro 100 would work fine if you had some.

For fast powders in handguns, I use either Titegroup or Promo (bulk version of Red Dot). The Titegroup meters better for real small charges, but otherwise I tend to go with Promo. Another good fast burner I used in the past was 700x. I typically go with about 1 gr above the max regular 38 Sp load for a mild mid range 357.

If you already have some fast powder, let us know what it is if you want suggestions. If not, good luck shopping right now. If you are doing shopping in person, you will want to have a list of "wants" and then just grab what you can based on availability.

Code: 
Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (CIP)
Bullet             : .358, 158, LEE 358-158-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 17.445 grain H2O = 1.133 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.580 inch = 40.13 mm
Barrel Length      : 4.0 inch = 101.6 mm
Powder             : Accurate Nitro 100

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-37.5   30     2.50    586     120    7482   3100     97.6    0.972
-25.0   36     3.00    672     158   10186   3738     99.8    0.828
-12.5   42     3.50    748     197   13245   4288    100.0    0.721
+00.0   48     4.00    818     235   16649   4830    100.0    0.638
+12.5   54     4.50    883     274   20393   5371    100.0    0.573
+25.0   60     5.00    944     313   24477   5909    100.0    0.522
+37.5   66     5.50   1002     352   28905   6445    100.0    0.480
 
Last edited:
kalielkslayer said:
I’m working on another caliber right now but in the near future I’m gonna start loading for my SP101.

I have 3 revolvers all chambered for .357. Ruger Security Six, Ruger GP 100 and the SP101.

Haven’t loaded for this caliber before but I usually shoot factory .357 in the S6 and GP 100. The SP101 has a 2.5” Barrel and I don’t really care for the recoil of a .357 in that gun so when I carry it, I carry +P rounds which are manageable.

As I start to reload for it I was wondering what would be better?

With the short barrel, I was going to go with a powder on the fast end of .38 powders. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
.308 Norma said:
I like Unique powder a lot for 38 Special +P loads in 357 Magnum cases.:thumbup:
Click to expand...
And there’s your answer. 6gr of Unique as a starting load with a 158gr LSWC-HP will put you in “light special magnum” territory. Work up to what your SP likes and what you can hit with accurately.
 
For me, muzzle blast from a short high pressure gun is as bad as (or possibly worse) than recoil.

Below is a quickload result that lists powder charges needed for pushing a 158 to 900 fps from a 4" (muzzle to breech, no cylinder gap) gun. The ones with the highest muzzle pressures (including the ones with less than 100% burn before the bullet leaves the barrel) are going to have more muzzle blast.

Code: 
Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (CIP)
Bullet             : .358, 158, LEE 358-158-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 17.445 grain H2O = 1.133 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.580 inch = 40.13 mm
Barrel Length      : 4.0 inch = 101.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Muzzle Velocity: 900 fps or 274 m/s
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. PdrBurn  P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate Solo 1000                  56.1      5.0     0.32    900   100.0    22220    5357  0.549
Accurate Nitro 100                  55.2      4.6     0.30    900   100.0    21456    5515  0.558
Accurate Solo 1250                  57.2      5.5     0.36    900   100.0    19684    5939  0.579
Accurate No.2                       53.3      5.7     0.37    900    97.7    18816    6535  0.587

Alliant RED DOT                     59.0      4.7     0.31    900   100.0    22792    5364  0.551
Alliant BULLSEYE                    47.7      5.1     0.33    900    99.2    18273    6653  0.595
Alliant UNIQUE                      55.2      5.7     0.37    900    98.6    18002    6944  0.617

Hodgdon Clays                       60.2      4.6     0.30    900   100.0    27580    4817  0.499
Hodgdon TiteGroup                   39.4      5.2     0.34    900   100.0    22603    5311  0.546
Hodgdon HP38                        40.7      5.5     0.35    900   100.0    20410    5744  0.571

Lovex S015                          56.1      5.0     0.32    900   100.0    22220    5357  0.549
Lovex D013                          55.2      4.6     0.30    900   100.0    21456    5515  0.558
Lovex S011                          47.6      5.2     0.34    900   100.0    20800    5610  0.559
Lovex D032                          38.0      5.1     0.33    900   100.0    20150    5842  0.568
Lovex S030                          51.2      5.7     0.37    900    99.5    19078    6347  0.585

Vihtavuori N310                     49.5      4.6     0.30    900   100.0    26131    4948  0.521
Vihtavuori N320                     53.9      5.1     0.33    900   100.0    21315    5523  0.567
 
Last edited:
.308 Norma said:
Nowadays, probably 99% of my 357 loads (which by the way, was the first cartridge I started loading for back in the late '70s) are like 38 Special +P loads in 357 Magnum cases. I haven't always loaded 357 Mags that way - back in the '80s, my wife was using a 357 Magnum in IHMSA, and she needed just about all the horsepower a 357 Mag (a 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk) could churn out to tip over those 200 meter steel rams. But since then, neither of us much care for full-throttle 357 Magnum loads. We have a 41 Mag, 44 Mags, and a Ruger 45 Colt if we need more powerful revolvers.
I like Unique powder a lot for 38 Special +P loads in 357 Magnum cases.:thumbup:
Click to expand...
P Flados said:
The fastest powder you can find load data for will do an excellent 38 SP +P type load in a 357 mag short barrel gun. Generally speaking, the faster the burn rate the less the muzzle flash for a given speed. Some burn rate charts put accurate Nitro 100 near the fastest. As you can see from the info at the bottom of this post, even Nitro 100 would work fine if you had some.

For fast powders in handguns, I use either Titegroup or Promo (bulk version of Red Dot). The Titegroup meters better for real small charges, but otherwise I tend to go with Promo. Another good fast burner I used in the past was 700x. I typically go with about 1 gr above the max regular 38 Sp load for a mild mid range 357.

If you already have some fast powder, let us know what it is if you want suggestions. If not, good luck shopping right now. If you are doing shopping in person, you will want to have a list of "wants" and then just grab what you can based on availability.

Code: 
Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (CIP)
Bullet             : .358, 158, LEE 358-158-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 17.445 grain H2O = 1.133 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.580 inch = 40.13 mm
Barrel Length      : 4.0 inch = 101.6 mm
Powder             : Accurate Nitro 100

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-37.5   30     2.50    586     120    7482   3100     97.6    0.972
-25.0   36     3.00    672     158   10186   3738     99.8    0.828
-12.5   42     3.50    748     197   13245   4288    100.0    0.721
+00.0   48     4.00    818     235   16649   4830    100.0    0.638
+12.5   54     4.50    883     274   20393   5371    100.0    0.573
+25.0   60     5.00    944     313   24477   5909    100.0    0.522
+37.5   66     5.50   1002     352   28905   6445    100.0    0.480
Click to expand...

My handgun powder I have currently are; ZIP, Titegroup, bullseye, win 231, 700x, win 296, HS6, N100. I might have missed one or 2.

I was going to test the 296 and N100 for .357 in my GP100 and Marlin lever.

I was going to start with the Titegroup. But I didn’t think about the 700x. I used the Hi Skor for light 12 gauge loads when I was shooting sporting clays but felt it was dirty in that application. But, based on your recommendation, I’ll try that too.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
And there’s your answer. 6gr of Unique as a starting load with a 158gr LSWC-HP will put you in “light special magnum” territory. Work up to what your SP likes and what you can hit with accurately.
Click to expand...

Sad story, I had 2 lbs Unique in my “cart” just the other day. Trying to make the most out of my HazMat fee, I ordered 8lbs of other powders. As I was checking out, the Unique disappeared, out of stock!

I posted the powders I have, and will continue to search for Unique.
 
I see these type threads all the time, I just don't get it.

Everything starts around your bullet selection and ends with your bullet selection.

You really should put together a bunch of different bullets for testing. It will be a real eye opener!!!

Several years ago I did a little testing with 38spl p+ loads in a 2" bbl'd snubnosed revolver. I used 10 different bullets and 5 different powders for that test. Bullseye, unique, be-86, power pistol, 2400
I made up 10 rounds of each powder/bullet combo using max loads and ran them over a chronograph. The end result was I had data from a 500 round test in the snubnosed 38spl.

What I found:
All bullets are not created equal.:what::what::what:. I used bullets that were 150gr to 170gr in weight. They were all hp's with some being hollow based also. They were jacketed, cast, coated and gas checked bullets. What was interesting was that the same 4 bullets kept having the highest velocities with all 5 powders. +/- 20fps didn't bother me but some of them were 70fps+ slower.

70fps is huge with a short bbl'd revolver!!! Choose a poorly designed bullet and that's a lot of extra powder/flash/recoil to make up the difference when compared to a high performance bullet.

The other thing I always see in these type threads in the fast powder thing. Nothing could be further from the truth. A fast powder does nothing to improve or increase velocity over a slower burning powder.

Unique and be-86 were within 10fps of each other for all 10 different bullets tested in that 2" bbl'd snubnosed revolver/38spl p+ loads. Neither were very impressive.

You should use the powders you have and do a bunch of testing with different bullets. It won't take long, as they say the cream rises to the top
 
forrest r said:
The other thing I always see in these type threads in the fast powder thing. Nothing could be further from the truth. A fast powder does nothing to improve or increase velocity over a slower burning powder.
Click to expand...
One should be mindful of the pressure as well as the velocity. Choosing fast powders for full or high velocity loads can get you in dangerous pressure territory. It can be mitigated somewhat in .38 special fired in a .357 frame but it’s not advisable to push limits that way. I choose faster powders for a given weight bullet and PF for a lower felt recoil. If I want full power loads, slower powders do well. I won’t speculate why the OP would like a faster powder for a short barrel, but TG, Bullseye and 231 all work really well in .38. Good luck.
 
kalielkslayer said:
I’m working on another caliber right now but in the near future I’m gonna start loading for my SP101.

I have 3 revolvers all chambered for .357. Ruger Security Six, Ruger GP 100 and the SP101.

Haven’t loaded for this caliber before but I usually shoot factory .357 in the S6 and GP 100. The SP101 has a 2.5” Barrel and I don’t really care for the recoil of a .357 in that gun so when I carry it, I carry +P rounds which are manageable.

As I start to reload for it I was wondering what would be better?

With the short barrel, I was going to go with a powder on the fast end of .38 powders. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
I am going to reply without first reading the other comments so my reply may be a rehash of something that was already said.

If you like the way the .38 Special +P works, then you can load a .38 Special +P load in .357 Magnum brass. It might be a tad lighter, but should function fine. If you want more than the +P, but less than “Full House” .357 loads, there’s a lot of room between the .38 Special +P and starting .357 Magnum loads. Any load in this uncharted territory should be safe (assuming you use data for the same type of bullet for both). I would, however, stay away from H110 for any reduced load in your .357. Reduced and H110 don’t play well together. Most other popular powders should be fine.

I did this when I was looking for something more than .38, but less than .357, and settled on a 140 gr XTP with Titegroup powder. You’ll have to judge what works best for you.
 
You have HS6, which is probably the best option for 357 special/38 magnum. :). It's what I use in this application for 158 cast and 158JHP for the wife's snubby. The other fast powders you list will do well for standard pressure 38s, and you might be able to push the +p limits with 231.
 
Like 308 Norma, I do not shoot full power 357 Magnum loads any more. I load 158 grain cast SWC powered by Unique powder to about 950 fps or so from a 4" barrel revolver these days. These are loaded in 357 Magnum cases. (I save my 38 Special cases for my guns that are chambered in 38 Special)

These loads are nice to shoot from my 3" S&W Model 60 which would be similar to the SP101.
 
kalielkslayer said:
My handgun powder I have currently are; ZIP, Titegroup, bullseye, win 231, 700x, win 296, HS6, N100. I might have missed one or 2.

I was going to test the 296 and N100 for .357 in my GP100 and Marlin lever.

I was going to start with the Titegroup. But I didn’t think about the 700x. I used the Hi Skor for light 12 gauge loads when I was shooting sporting clays but felt it was dirty in that application. But, based on your recommendation, I’ll try that too.
Click to expand...
700x makes a great low level 357 load.
I used dippers with it and still got accuracy on par with my best loads.
 
Bfh_auto said:
700x makes a great low level 357 load.
I used dippers with it and still got accuracy on par with my best loads.
Click to expand...
Agreed. 700x is a good powder for target loads in .45ACP as well. It’s one of the more versatile powders - not quite in the same way as Unique but close.

Try 700x loaded.1-.2 above starting though. In my experience it performs better at higher pressures than minimum and with heavier bullets. It needs a load to push.
 
lordpaxman said:
Choosing fast powders for full or high velocity loads can get you in dangerous pressure territory.
Click to expand...

Choosing medium or slow powders for full or high velocity loads can get you in dangerous pressure territory, too.
 
I have revolvers and brass set up for both. The way I do it if you have enough brass. 38 SPL target loads in that brass, +P in +P brass. Mild 357/38+P ammo in the nickel 357 brass. Hot 357 in brass cases. I usually shoot 357 brass in a 357 cause I do not want to deal with the carbon rings. Also 700X and promo have worked out well for all but magnum loads here.
 
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