30 Cal Long Range Shooting

Yes. 30-338 Lapua AI. Or a 30 XC. Anything with really nice brass.

“Better” or “faster”......?

im no expert but this 300 saum improved may give it a run.

Thinking on this a bit more this morning and giving time to expand on my rhetorical question above in different context.

1) Demonstrably, there are many “better” cartridges than 30-378 for long range shooting. SAUM’s and WSM’s carry favor in some long range competition - where the added speed of the 30-378 doesn’t contribute to performance.

2) In ELR, where the raw velocity advantage of the large 30-378 case may mean an actual advantage, ALL 30 caliber cartridges are at a disadvantage. Some ELR competitions do not even allow 30’s and 338’s (frankly, two shooters saved the 338’s place in Ko2M last season, and ONE shooter has recently bolstered the 338’s place as even relevant for the sport). 30 cals, in ELR, are about as successful as middle school linebackers in the NFL. Is the 30-378 the best among the 30’s? Eh, probably not, based on my experience in tuning the round, but NO 30 is really worth shooting for the task. I shoot a 31” 1:9” twist 300wm and a 300PRC for ELR fun on occasion, and they really, really can’t play against even the 338 Laps, let alone the big 375’s and 416’s. Of course, none of these cartridges have much barrel life, but a hotrod 30 trying to play outside of its weight class with an EXTREME overbore ratio will barely make it out of load development before it’s smoked.

In other words, there really isn’t a game where the 30-378’s speed can create a real advantage. If you’re shooting long range, 1000yrds to a mile, it doesn’t tune as easily as other cartridges, and when you’re playing ELR past a mile, it doesn’t have the capabilities to keep up with the rest of the pack.

Mark and Sam shoot them all. I did get a kick how quickly they got on target with the 30-378.
Sometimes I don't think the Weatherby cartridges get the respect that they deserve.

I wonder how many rounds it would take to get a decent tune on that beast.
Heck I don't know anyone that even shoots one.

Just today on my face(palm)book page I saw where an ELR shooter hit at 12000+ yds.(~2.5mi.) on his 4th attempt using a 33XC.

DazedandConfuzed said:

Just today on my face(palm)book page I saw where an ELR shooter hit at 12000+ yds.(~2.5mi.) on his 4th attempt using a 33XC.

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I would expect you are seeing Ryan Cheney’s impact from a few weeks ago at 4100 and change (2.3 miles), which is currently the longest impact ever in ELR competition, and the longest confirmed competition impact with a 33caliber. He did shoot a 33XC. This is the “ONE shooter” I mentioned above which is keeping the 33 cals relevant and alive in ELR competition, preventing them from slipping off of the edge of the table to be prohibited by the rules of many competitions. He actually just sold his business, but he’s been a local cerakote applicator for a long time around here - just “retired” after selling his business to become an emu farmer. I’ve shot PRS matches with him a few times when he was still competing, and he coated a handful of firearms for me over a few years. Super humble guy. Sadly, he’s expecting someone will break his record this month at a match offering an even farther target, but WITHOUT the hit to advance requirement they usually live under, and under which he made his record setting impact. Meaning everyone entered will have the opportunity to fling their 5 rounds with a wing and a prayer to potentially break his record (himself included).

jski said:

This Aussie says that there are pluses and minuses with selecting larger calibers (338 and up) for long range. It’s an interesting listen.

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I like Mark and Sam. Lots of knowledge and experience. I liked his comment on shooting animals at no further than one second of flight time. To me that is a long long shot. A half of second would be a good limit. When you look at a deer being able to drop a body with in a hundredths of a second. They can move faster than than you can adjust for. Just a thought...

What folks do for YouTube with the liberty of volume of fire is a different thing than what is done in competition when round counts are limited. It remains one of the greatest criticism of other extreme long range records - for example, Devoglear’s 4 mile impact on the 69th shot. We’ll likely see a 4 mile impact in competition someday, and some folks believe that “someday” will be soon, but that does remain a gap between exhibition shot records and competition records. Not so different than all of the YouTube videos of 1000yrd milk jug challenges with 16” AR’s, while nobody is shooting such a rifle for competition. Also not so different than the fact many, many people have confirmed kills on prairie dogs at ranges which far exceed anything they would fire upon a deer, despite the fact prairie dogs present a much smaller target than a deer’s vitals - when a varminter can fling a handful of rounds, or a couple handfuls, and hit one prairie dog at a repeating den position, the odds of connecting effectively converge to 100%. Whereas a hunter will be far more judicious with bullets sent after big game. In other words, proving what can be done is a very different thing than proving what can be done reliably.

Another thing to consider - heavily - is the context he’s discussing in that particular video. One mile. He mentions himself in the first few minutes - one mile isn’t ELR in many cases. Often folks consider ELR to start wherever a cartridge falls fully subsonic, and for many cartridges (as in, for almost, if not all of the cartridges commonly used for ELR competition), 1 mile can remain supersonic. It’s very easy to defend 30cal magnums as nearing an optimum for 1 mile shooting - but there isn’t much done at 1 mile for competition, and I honestly think THAT is the driving force behind that gap. We see several 1000yrd disciplines, and multiple “long range” disciplines shooting shorter than 1000yrds, but then a huge gap into the next class of competitions. Why? Because there’s a wide transitionary gap there where small long range cartridges can still hang (as he notes about the 6.5 creed being nearly perfect, even confirming success with 80grn 223’s out to a mile), while conventional magnums like 7mm RM or 300 WSM make life all the more easier - but without crossing into a price class uncommon for common rifles (for the rifle or the ammo). No, nobody needs a 338, 375, or 416 to shoot a mile (or maybe rather nobody needs to spend the MONEY for one of these), but shooting a mile isn’t really ELR for a 338, 375, or 416 either. Frankly, that’s why I have a couple of 31” 30 cal rifles - I have property where I can shoot from a mile to 2000yrds and I had money to spend to more reliably shoot there. But I get absolutely mopped by the big guns any time we talk about actual ELR competition ranges.

So confirming again as I divided in my last - there’s a difference in what is “best” for long range shooting, and what is “best” for Extreme Long Range shooting. And 30 cal magnums are only really “optimal” for the No Man’s Land which lives between the two. Fun and affordable at a mile, no doubt. But a long ways from “best” in either category of ELR or LR.