Can someone explain the practical use of the 30-378 and 338-378 rounds??

[saturno_v]

Do not get me wrong..I love record breaking cartridges and I'm fascinated by these supermonsters.
When my collection will be complete I may eventually drop a grand and a half for a 338-378 (I wanted one for long time)
However, reason of the heart (and bragging rights) aside, what is the real practical advantage (for hunting or practical target shooting) of these two huge cartridges compared to the "regular" 300 Magnums (including Weatherby's own 300 Wby Mag) and 338 Win Mag??

Let's, for example compare the 338 WM and the 338-378 (I own a Vanguard in 338 WM)

Cost of the rifle

A Mark V 338-378 Synthetic (the basic version) will require well in excess of $1000-1200 compared to the Vanguard synthetic...and you do not get wood or fancy finishing and stuff. They both come with accuracy guaranteed.

Cartridge performance

338-378 200 gr. Accubond from Weatherby

3380 fps muzzle, 5075 ft/lb muzzle, 2254 fps left at 500y, 2256 ft/lb left at 500y

338 Win Mag 200 gr. Accubond from Double Tap

3075 fps muzzle, 4200 ft/lb muzzle, 2250 fps left at 500y, 2246 ft/lb left at 500y

338-378 225 gr. Barnes TSX from Weatherby

3180 fps muzzle, 5052 ft/lb muzzle, 2238 fps left at 500y, 2501 ft/lb left at 500y

338 Win Mag 225 gr. Nosler Accubond from Double Tap

2850 fps muzzle, 4058 ft/lb muzzle, 2130 ft/lb left at 500y (there is a typo in the velocity column showing only the number 2))

338-378 250 gr. Partition from Weatherby

3060 fps muzzle, 5197 ft/lb muzzle, 2125 fps left at 500y, 2507 ft/lb left at 500y

338 Win Mag 250 gr. Partition from Double Tap

2750 muzzle, 4200 ft/lb muzzle, 2025 fps left at 500y, 2280 ft/lb left at 500y

So the 338-378 start with about 25% muzzle energy advantage. At the 500y the two rounds are, for every practical purpose, basically equivalent.

The 338-378 ammo cost $139 a box, Double Tap 338 Win Mag is $44 (other brands even cheaper)

Even if you reload the brass is much more expensive for the 338-378.

Weatherby ballistic data is for 26" barrel, Double tap is 24"...out of a 26" barrel the 338 Win Mag would noticeably reduce the gap

I did not compare the trajectories because the 338-378 data is published for 300y zero, DT is for 200 or 250 depending on the load...of course the 338-378 will shoot few inches flatter.

The 338-378 will have much increased muzzle blast (you need a brake).

The difference, in published data, between the 300 Wby and the 30-378 (both 26" pipe) is no more than 100-150 fps in velocity for the 30-378 and within a handful of inches at 500y (both zeroed at 300y)...a box of 30-378 will cost you $129, the 300 Wby start from $39 (and you can chose from other manufacturers too)

Again, do not get me wrong, maybe one day I will buy one of these supermagnums, just for the fun of it but I ask to the experienced hunter/practical target shooter..what is the real usefulness of these hyper rounds compared to the standard magnums??

 

[Z-Michigan]

Why, they are for grizzly bear defense from 16" barreled carbines, don't you know?!?!

More seriously, I put them squarely in the "just because I can" category.

 

[saturno_v]

FInally, assuming extreme long range shooting with a 300 gr. Sierra Matchking, this is what I get at 1000y using the JBM online ballistic calculator (300 yards zero for both)

338-378, muzzle velocity 2818 fps (26" barrel)

1000y, 1740 fps left, 2018 ft/lb left, 228" drop

338 Win Mag, muzzle velocity 2500 fps (24" barrel)

1000y, 1508 fps left, 1515 ft/lb left, 299" drop

They are both well supersonic at that extreme range.

 

[dougwx12]

They make your johnson feel bigger.

 

[goldie]

At 100.00+ for 20 rounds it sure isnt economical, thats for sure.....

 

[saturno_v]

Commercially I think that Remington is being smarter with their hypermagnums (The RUM line) compared to Weatherby.

Both rifles and ammo can be bought at much more reasonable prices.

Around here at Cabela's, is not that uncommon to see a Rem 700 in 300 RUM on sale at $500-550.

The Rem 700 XCR in 338 RUM has a MSRP of about $900...same price if you want to buy a 338 Win Mag in a Remington 700 platform.

But the Weatherby 378 based cartridges are way off the charts on a quick cost-benefit calculation IMHO.

 

[GunsBeerFreedom]

I too am rather fascinated with the 30-378. My dream set up would be a Ruger #1 chambered in it with a 30 1/2 barrel and 300gr VLD bullets for when I need to shoot mountain to mountain.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Originally designed by Elmer Keith and a Mr. Thompson for long range elk guns, capable of dropping an elk in his tracks at 500-600 yards across a mountain/valley. After using many lesser cartridges, Elmer believed the .338/.378 Keith/Thompson was THE elk gun.

 

[saturno_v]

Originally designed by Elmer Keith and a Mr. Thompson for long range elk guns, capable of dropping an elk in his tracks at 500-600 yards across a mountain/valley. After using many lesser cartridges, Elmer believed the .338/.378 Keith/Thompson was THE elk gun.

That is the problem..according with these published loads the two rounds (338 WM and 338-378) are almost equivalent at the 500y mark...

 

[ArmedBear]

Originally designed by Elmer Keith and a Mr. Thompson for long range elk guns, capable of dropping an elk in his tracks at 500-600 yards across a mountain/valley.

Exactly. That's what it was designed for, and that's what it's good for.

 

[X-Rap]

No need for those big diesel motors in those pickups or big V Twin motorcycle engines either, heck anything over 100 hp on a boat is just a waste.
Whats the practical need for sex after you have all the kids you want??

 

[Birddog1911]

"what is the real usefulness of these hyper rounds compared to the standard magnums?? "

These?

 

[saturno_v]

No need for those big diesel motors in those pickups or big V Twin motorcycle engines either, heck anything over 100 hp on a boat is just a waste.
Whats the practical need for sex after you have all the kids you want??

That is not a fair comparison IMHO.

A big diesel engine allows you to haul more stuff....if you need it or not it's a different story.

A boat with a 300 HP or more will give you much more speed

Sex is very pleasant even if you do nto want to reproduce.


These rounds instead cost you a fortune (Rifle + Ammo) for a very little ballistic advantage over regular magnums (in the 30-378 vs. 300 Wby comparison is 100-150 fps muzzle velocity advantage worth 3 times the cost of ammo??)


For a 300 or 338 Magnum rifle (Win Mag or Wby) nowadays your spend the same money than a regular 30-06 (taking in consideration your typical $400ish tupperware) and just a reasonable amount more for the ammo ....I can see the cost-benefit advantage in this case.


However probably the real potential of the 30-378 and the 338-378 can be exploited with custom rifles with particularly long barrels well over the 26" pipes (28" with the brake) of the regular production Mark V rifles.

 

[usmc1371]

A few years back my little bro put his 338 away in favor of a mark v 338-378 and I have watched him shoot several elk and mule deer with it. The biggest diff I can tell is the smile on his face when that cannon goes off and animals fall down. Not that he didn't knock down plenty of things with his 338wm or the 300wm befor that. The rifle is a nice shooter, hits hard and is just plain fun. If you can afford to shoot it. You can take the brake off. I tried it twice. The first shot I wasn't sure if the scope actruly touched my face. The second shot I am positive that the scope punched me in the eye.
I don't know if there is any real noticable advantage to the 378 case mags but they do put smile on your face. I know the numbers don't seem all that much better but it seems like the 338-378 just really hammers elk.

 

[fase3]

30-378& 338-378 wthby

I bought my 338-378 wthby for elk hunting and it did its job well much better than my 338 Win Mag. Now at 70 the rifle sits in a place of honor in my gun case while I have fond memories of all the hunts with it. When I went to Argentina to hunt Red Stag and other game I took my Browning A Bolt Stalker in 300 WSM as it is so much lighter as well as being very accurate. The 300 WSM has become my "Go To' gun.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Since the Weatherby case is larger, it would seem that with proper powders and optimum loads, the .338/.378KT would outperform the .338 regularly, particularly with a flatter trajectory. The flat trajectory would be a big part of the equation at long range, giving a greater "point blank" area, and slightly making up for ranging mistakes. An extra 50-100 ft/lbs of energy would not be a big thing, but having 5-10 less drop at 600 yards could mean a hit over a miss, or a clean kill over a bad wound.

 

[dubbleA]

Cartridge performance

338-378 200 gr. Accubond from Weatherby

3380 fps muzzle, 5075 ft/lb muzzle, 2254 fps left at 500y, 2256 ft/lb left at 500y

338 Win Mag 200 gr. Accubond from Double Tap

3075 fps muzzle, 4200 ft/lb muzzle, 2250 fps left at 500y, 2246 ft/lb left at 500y

I suspect you are quoting factory ballistic charts but something doesnt jive here. Explain to me how the same exact bullet with the same BC starts outs at 3380fps and the other at 3075fps (305fps slower) and at 500 yard the difference is only 4fps.

I just ran some numbers through my RSI program that comes with the CED Chronograph. Using the BC of 0.414 for the 200gr NAB and the same atmospheric parameters I came up with a different story.

338Win 3075fps MV @500yd 2084fps @1000yd 1337fps

338-378 3380fps MV @500yd 2326fps @1000yd 1504fps


338Win 500yd energy 1928ft lb 1000yd energy 794ft lb

338-378 500yd energy 2402ft lb 1000yd energy 1004ft lb


Bullet drop at 1000yds is 334 inches for the Win and 270 inches with the Wby.

I never use these ballistic charts as fact only as general guide lines. There are so many variables involved and the only way to know is to actually shoot and chrono at the distances you desired. As most shooters are aware of factory claimed velocities are often very optimistic and not reached, again the variable factor weighs in.

On paper, if I did the math right,at 1000yds the Wby has a 11% advantage in retained velocity, +20% in energy and 19% less bullet drop over the 338 Win.
Is that a practical advantage?
I can say for certain that the 338-378 wby, 338 lapua and 338rum can all outrun the 338Win, whether you think it's practical to get one is up tp you.

Only an individual person can say. What might be practical to one might not be to another.

 

[NCsmitty]

something doesn't jive here

I read those numbers too, dubbleA and I wondered if anyone would catch it. Identical bullets will maintain the difference pretty much.



NCsmitty

 

[saturno_v]

dubbleA


You are right...something is not right for the 338 WM 200 gr. and I should call Double Tap....maybe they are a little bit "optimistic" or they made a calculation mistake or they run their number for higher altitude/lower atmospheric pressure.

The numbers for their higher bullet weights (225 gr. and 250 gr.) seem on the mark checking with the JBM software.

Still the advantage seems not that much considering the cost....and if you fire the 338 WM for the same 26" pipe, the gap would be further reduced.

The 338 Lapua advantage over the 338 Win Mag (checking both Hodgdon and Vihtavuori data) seems to be no more than 150-200 fps on average....however the difference in cost of ammo is atrocious.

I can say for certain that the 338-378 wby, 338 lapua and 338rum can all outrun the 338Win,

That is without question, I was trying to understand if the cost are worth the benefits....another thing to consider is the substantially shorter barrel life (even a Weatherby technician admitted that)

 

[ants]

What is the real usefulness of these hyper rounds compared to the standard magnums??

When you get a straight-on shot chest shot at an elk, it blows the ass right out the back so you don't have to worry about feces contaminating the meat. Very practical.