45 1873 versus 45 1911

If it ever happened, the 26th Infantry Regiment is a likely candidate. From formation in 1905, they spent 20 years deployed in whole and in part in the Philippines and were heavily engaged in the Moro Rebellion in the Philippines. They (or elements thereof) certainly received reissued 1873 revolvers after complaints about the inefficacy of the 38 Colt/M1892 revolver. So, if there is a unit that may have skipped from a reissued 1873 to a 1911, it was almost certainly a unit in the Philippines and the 26th is a pretty likely candidate.

At 30 steps, I too shoot a SSA clone better than a 1911. Not sure if is my proficiency, the firearm type or construction. In the past 100 years, both types have been punching small groups of holes in various paper and non paper targets. My guess, the elder trooper would prefer his smoke pipe, because that is his experience. New trooper would like latest tool ?
Likewise, I have been shooting various configurations of S&W M10 for over 50 years- it has a "comforting" feeling in my hand and when I aim at a target. My son recently brought home a very nice 9mm pistol, he invested a lot in it. After shooting it some in our backyard range, he asks, what do you think Dad? I Suggested his firearm is very nice, was pleasant to shoot, good sights and trigger- but not my favorite. Perhaps we need more practice, lots of empty 9mm brass on the patio deck to sweep up. Put all of the 38 SPL brass in a pouch when I ejected them. 9/10 mm pistols are currently in trend, revolvers not as much?

I would contend that if trooper A had to hunker down behind a rock and reload his '73 while bullets ricochet off his rock, then pick up his rock and drop it in his pocket........
He might be eager to try the 1911.

That would be an interesting event to see @wgf
Not the same, but similar. In the 1980’s I used to frequent a range in SoCal that hosted a lot of bullseye competitions and lots of police officers shot there. Nearly all those officers carried and practiced with revolvers when I first met them. Some of them switched over to 9mm semiautos because they were allowed to or because the department was making them switch.
It was interesting to watch this in the aspect of the more seasoned officers not wanting to relinquish what they were used and fond of versus the newcomers eager for more firepower in the way of magazine capacity and fast reloads.

Neither one of those groups is bad, in my book. It appears both handguns would have done their jobs in a dire situation, but I think @Armored farmer has a good point. Reloads might get real interesting or exhilarating with the SAA in a combat situation.

Pat Riot said:

Reloads might get real interesting or exhilarating with the SAA in a combat situation.

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Then again, reloading a 1911 gets really intense when your mags are empty.

I'm not too sure the transition was from SAA to the M1911. There was a purchase of some Model 1878 Rod Ejector Double Actions in .45 Colt caliber, and also the issue of the M1909 (New Service). Also not too sure a new Private would be issued any handgun. The Cavalry, prior to the M1903 Springfield was armed with the .30 caliber Krag carbine. During the testing/selection phase, old time Cavalry officers insisted it was the carbine, not the pistol, that was the arm of the Cavalry.


Bob Wright

Like any other serving enlisted man, they were probably both hoping they'd never have to use whatever weapons they were issued.

The veteran would tell the new officer to start practicing because a 1911 should shoot way better than that at 10 yards.

Much as I love a single action revolver in 45 Colt, faced at handgun range with a charging Moro warrior run amok, I think I would have preferred the 7 shots of auto loading 45 acp goodness and smokeless powder from the 1911.

Even more so, I would have preferred 100 yards distance and the butter bolt of my Krag or hefty joy of my 1903

DocRock said:

Much as I love a single action revolver in 45 Colt, faced at handgun range with a charging Moro warrior run amok, I think I would have preferred the 7 shots of auto loading 45 acp goodness and smokeless powder from the 1911.

Even more so, I would have preferred 100 yards distance and the butter bolt of my Krag or hefty joy of my 1903

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The purpose of a handgun is to fight your way to a rifle.

"I think I'd rather get up-close and personal with the enemy," said no sane person, ever.

Much as @DocRock stated, I'd prefer a 100yd advantage and a 1903.... failing that... I'd make the 1873 Colt count...

GeoDudeFlorida said:

The purpose of a handgun is to fight your way to a rifle.

"I think I'd rather get up-close and personal with the enemy," said no sane person, ever.

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The problem in the Philippines was the Juramentado. Some Moros -- who were Muslims -- would take an oath to kill a Christian, which in the early 1900s meant an American. He would go through a ceremony, take drugs, have his body wrapped in bandages (to retard bleeding), then dress normally and wander into a crowd with a bolo or a barang (razor sharp, strong-backed knives) concealed under his clothing. When he considered conditions right, out came the bolo, and he would begin hacking and slashing until killed.

If someone was within convenient reach of his rifle, the Juramentado would pass him by, and seek easier prey. When dealing with a Juramentado, you were fighting at bad-breath distance, literally, with no chance to get your rifle.

The only correct answer to what 45 is to add an extra 5.



Webley Mk VI over the 1873 or 1911 for me.

Vern Humphrey said:

The problem in the Philippines was the Juramentado. Some Moros -- who were Muslims -- would take an oath to kill a Christian, which in the early 1900s meant an American. He would go through a ceremony, take drugs, have his body wrapped in bandages (to retard bleeding), then dress normally and wander into a crowd with a bolo or a barang (razor sharp, strong-backed knives) concealed under his clothing. When he considered conditions right, out came the bolo, and he would begin hacking and slashing until killed.

If someone was within convenient reach of his rifle, the Juramentado would pass him by, and seek easier prey. When dealing with a Juramentado, you were fighting at bad-breath distance, literally, with no chance to get your rifle.

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Exactly. If you are already fighting with handguns you are too busy and behind the power curve to “fight your way to your rifle.” I never liked that quote as it is nonsense. I prefer the other story where the society lady asks the sheriff at the cotillion why he brought his pistol, did he expect trouble? He replies that if he expected trouble he would have brought his rifle.

One account said that a revolver, even a .45 was not really adequate; the best Moro stopper was a shotgun.

On reloading, W.W. Greener wrote "If, by the time five or six shots have been fired and the peril has not abated, there may be better things to do than hastily reloading the revolver."

Jim Watson said:

On reloading, W.W. Greener wrote "If, by the time five or six shots have been fired and the peril has not abated, there may be better things to do than hastily reloading the revolver."

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But how many gunfights had W. W. Greener been in?

On the other hand, people who have been in gunfights, or who might be, such as cops and military, always carry reloads.

But on the gripping hand, there are few accounts of shootings in which the handgun is actually reloaded. Not none, but few.
I don't think that Churchill fellow had to reload in spite of being in the last great cavalry charge. He did describe pulling up his horse and reloading his Mauser after the charge, though.

One reason so many Webleys were "shaved" for .45 ACP was that there was little surplus ammunition, unlike a lot of other army surplus weapons. The issue was maybe 18 rounds and that was it, no reliable resupply in the British system.

I have to say, if given the choice, that I would go with a 1911 over the Colt SAA. Not that I don't love the SAA; I do, it's just that I would always go with the faster reload of the semi-auto over the comparable single action revolver.

Then again if there's some distance, say 100 yards or so, between you and your would-be attacker, then it's time to break out the Krag!