Kitchen Table Dealer article

old lady new shooter said:

Is it better to post personal no-longer-wanted firearms on gunbroker?

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I wouldn't think so. Gunbroker isn't very useful for private transactions limited to same-state residents. Plus you've got to pay them their cut.

wiscoaster said:

I don't know. Color me curious as well. Maybe they've got watchers at gun shows posing as shoppers?

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This was first pointed out to me at a Dallas gun show in the early 80s. They were not only watching the dealers, but listening to what the patrons were saying. In Wichita a knife maker was set up and sold an auto-opener to an ATF agent (who could legally purchase the knife).

wiscoaster said:

I wouldn't think so. Gunbroker isn't very useful for private transactions limited to same-state residents. Plus you've got to pay them their cut.

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I think I would feel nervous selling face-to-face to a stranger.

I was thinking gunbroker would at least result in more money than selling to the LGS.

twarr1 said:

The point; The ATF prioritizing those that don't have resources to defend themselves is wrong.

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Agreed.
Take the time to think like a burreaucrat, though: In order to justifuy your reason to be employed by the government, you must generate documentation indicating you are doing something. Few government workers expend more than the least amount of energy required to fullfil their obligation. The easiest cases always seem to generate the most documentation.
For example: Many years ago, during an ecomnomic downturn that left me more unemployed than employed, I fell behind in child support to my x-wife. Every year therafter I would receive nast letters from BOTH the state child enforcement office and the IRS telling me my tax refund woould be seized and used to satisfy the late obligations. The first year the letter form IRS was 2 or three sentences. (I wish now I had kept that letter.) 9 years later, when all CS had been paid in full, the letter from the IRS was 2 pages long and said the same thing as the first one. I mentioned this to a friend years later that actuallly worked for the state CS enforcement agency and said; "I think they generate these letters just because I am easy to find. I have been living in the same place for 18 years!" Her answer was: "You are right. The easy ones get the attention first just because they are easy to generate paperwork on."

hso writes:

Selling 94 guns, many of the same type, to one person in one year would be an indication of not just one, but many straw purchases were being made.[/QYOTE]

It was actually over three years, but certainly a pattern that would still raise eyebrows.

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I used to have a couple of friends who had FFL's primarily to be able to buy guns at cost vs the markup at gun stores. They would sell to friends and relatives at a small profit just to cover the costs of their license and other fees. But the paperwork and regulations forced all of them out of business eventually.

Wholesalers started giving bulk pricing to dealers as well as some manufacturers selling directly to dealers if they bought in bulk hurt them too. I know the guys who run the largest local gun shop who got a sweet deal buying 50 shotguns from Beretta/Benelli/ Browning. In addition to having 50 shotguns shipped directly to the store they got 5 free Benelli Nova pump shotguns in the deal which they could advertise at insanely low pricing to get customers in the store then upsell to one of the higher priced guns. The kitchen counter guys, even smaller brick and mortar shops couldn't compete with that.

The rise of internet sales has changed that for at least a few guys. If someone will get an FFL, and accept shipments for transfer they can make a decent profit as a side business. They never have to order anything or use a dime of their own money. The customer orders and pays. The firearm is shipped to their home or other place of business. They simply fill out the paperwork, supposedly do a background check, and collect their transfer fee. Some of these guys are making several hundred a week. And I don't have a problem with that as long as they are legit.

Transfers are 10 bucks a pop here , not much profit in that .

The problem is, that if an individual buys 94-some firearms within three years, that individual is responsible for his actions after the purchase. Not the FFL dealer, that fills out and files all required paperwork per ATF guidelines.
Besides, a statement like "who bought more than 94 firearms from him over three years" reflects the rock-bottom standard of the new media. If it were more than 94 firearms, it would be great to know how many there were??? Any defense lawyer, even the worst one, should be able to throw a case against the FFL dealer out but intimidation works wonders on fearful folks.

jmr40 said:

I used to have a couple of friends who had FFL's primarily to be able to buy guns at cost vs the markup at gun stores. They would sell to friends and relatives at a small profit just to cover the costs of their license and other fees. But the paperwork and regulations forced all of them out of business eventually.

...
The rise of internet sales has changed that for at least a few guys. If someone will get an FFL, and accept shipments for transfer they can make a decent profit as a side business. They never have to order anything or use a dime of their own money. The customer orders and pays. The firearm is shipped to their home or other place of business. They simply fill out the paperwork, supposedly do a background check, and collect their transfer fee. Some of these guys are making several hundred a week. And I don't have a problem with that as long as they are legit.

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Anybody who can comply with the ATF rules and regulations to make a few hundred Dollars with FFL transfers, is smart enough to make better money in most other business ventures.

twarr1 said:

The point; The ATF prioritizing those that don't have resources to defend themselves is wrong.

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Practice started with the formation of the FBI. When the agents had nothing to go on during the investigation, JEH had the agents put the squeeze on some had nothing. After the defendants ran out of money, some of them sang, both good and bad. This testimony was used to convict the 2 top players in the Osage Nation murders. A guilty verdict was reached, but not an execution. As soon as the verdict was handed down, JEH disbanded the investigation. JEH had his 15 minutes of fame, and many murders were not investigated. Countless middle men went free, as did the two convicted, who were released early.. This pattern is still followed, showing how corrupt the FBI and ATF are.

old lady new shooter said:

I missed "many of the same type" in the story.

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Wouldn't that make me guilty, too?

Dale Alan said:

Transfers are 10 bucks a pop here , not much profit in that .

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$20 here but IIRC in Cali I paid $75.