Powder chart

Status
Not open for further replies.
black mamba said:
Right or wrong, lots of reloaders extrapolate data from burn rate charts: "If powder X is slower than powder Y, then any load with Y is safe with X." Absolutely not true, but it is done. If done with the accurateshooter chart, it could be disastrous.
Click to expand...

It could be disastrous if done with ANY burn rate chart. Thus the one at that link is not special or unique.

Burn rate charts don't agree with where they rank powders. You can find odd rankings with any burn rate chart, but, as noted, the linear rank charts are most prone to misunderstanding. That's why people can't use ranks for guesstimating charge weights. If loaders do that, they might be up for a Darwin Award.
 
AJC1 said:
ball/flake/extruded and single or dual base would be great information to have and not take up more than two extra characters
Click to expand...

Photo list doesnt contain newer powders. http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=1 Double based powders will contain Nitroglycerin.
Have to look up NEWER powder manufactures SDS to see type. https://imrpowder.com/resources/safety-data-sheets/
View attachment 1004273 View attachment 1004274

Alliant has SDS on their website also.

Burn rate mean little. Reloading data shows what powders are useful for a cartridge. Imo.
 
Last edited:
AJC1 said:
…and adds all the other information we all want. I would think having form factor ball/flake/extruded and single or dual base would be great information to have…
Click to expand...

I agree but language and definitions would need to be set.

I’ll throw out these 4 just because they “self identify” on the container.

9784BF3F-A3D0-40DF-A022-ADC2CDAA713F.jpeg

Titegroup is a “spherical powder”, note: every point on its surface equidistant from its center…. :)

3D96A083-FBD6-4993-951A-87DCBC0D518C.jpeg

Clays is an “extruded powder”.

4B773EBA-D550-4C3C-A490-2AC5169CA80A.jpeg

231 is a “ball powder”. I think Canadians would call it a “puck” powder before calling it “ball”. :)

D73C61DF-793B-474A-9E90-5A9958499369.jpeg

296 is also a “ball powder”, I’ll accept this one.

FA76C625-764F-4B1B-9C8D-D570B1C343A1.jpeg

Just to add further confusion this is also an extruded powder, obviously a different method than Clays above…

08359F1D-7F4E-4FCD-A937-2E1ED346AF2E.jpeg

I have been calling Extruded, Ball and Spherical powders incorrectly “flakes” for decades. Then again, my words are better at identifying their shape, at least to me. :)
 
Last edited:
I know that to the new reloader that Powder choice can be very confusing. Especially with all of the newer 'Botique' powders that have came out in the several years. Been loading since 1967 and I remember back when Winchester came out with a lineup of Ball powders that we all had to try. Fast forward to today and the choices have tripled.
I'm kind of moving back to 4895, 3031 and 4350.
 
FROGO207 said:
The chart that got me going was where 231 and HP38 were seperated by two other propellants. They are exactly the same as verified by the distributor.
Click to expand...

They are NOW, now that Hodgdon distributes Winchester powders and just fills cans for both out of the same barrel sent in from the powder mill at St Marks. Back when Winchester handled their own distribution, apparently the baseline specifications were slightly different and gave rise to differing loads. Which demonstrates that chart is out of date.

jmorris said:
I agree but language and definitions would need to be set.

I’ll throw out these 4 just because they “self identify” on the container.
Click to expand...

There are two main methods to produce smokeless powder.
It can be extruded into long strands which are cut into cylindrical granules or sliced thin into flakes.
I don't know anybody loading the strands directly into cartridges like the English did with Cordite.

It can be formed into little balls by agitation of the gel mix of nitrocellulose, nitroglycerine, and solvent under water. Winchester calls this the Ball Powder process and has the term copyrighted so Hodgdon has to call theirs, which is made in the same plant, "Spherical."
Some ball process powder comes out in final form as actual balls, H335 looks like a can of teeny ball bearings.
Win 231 is rolled flat to adjust burn rate, so a lot of people think it is a flake powder, but it is made by the Ball PROCESS.
I don't know what they do in the Ball process to give Titegroup that ugly irregular shape but some of the earliest canister grade Ball powders like WAA12 were as irregular.
 
Blackrock said:
I know that to the new reloader that Powder choice can be very confusing. Especially with all of the newer 'Botique' powders that have came out in the several years. Been loading since 1967 and I remember back when Winchester came out with a lineup of Ball powders that we all had to try. Fast forward to today and the choices have tripled.
I'm kind of moving back to 4895, 3031 and 4350.
Click to expand...
The codes would be b,f,e and I'm still giggling about it.
 
I tried the sport pistol. After SNS casting recommended it. Speer's latest has data for it. I have loaded some ''out side of the box'' And been successful. My base starting loads with it for non published loads. Was i noticed the data that is listed runs very close to tite group. As time went on more published loads showed i was on the right track with my loads.
 
M-14 said:
I've been eyeballing Sport Pistol myself.
Click to expand...
I use the load tables as an indicator of burn rate. One powder has a max of 5 while one allows 5.5 or 6, it's a good indication of burn speed. Sometimes that's all the data provided unless you using a book like lyman that gives pressure also. The current version of any chart just shows me a region of burn rates that may be good for my application. More of a shopping reference than load information.
 
jmorris said:
I agree but language and definitions would need to be set.

I’ll throw out these 4 just because they “self identify” on the container.

View attachment 1004285

Titegroup is a “spherical powder”, note: every point on its surface equidistant from its center…. :)

View attachment 1004283

Clays is an “extruded powder”.

View attachment 1004282

231 is a “ball powder”. I think Canadians would call it a “puck” powder before calling it “ball”. :)

View attachment 1004281

296 is also a “ball powder”, I’ll accept this one.

View attachment 1004284

Just to add further confusion this is also an extruded powder, obviously a different method than Clays above…

View attachment 1004286

I have been calling Extruded, Ball and Spherical powders incorrectly “flakes” for decades. Then again, my words are better at identifying their shape, at least to me. :)
Click to expand...
Winchester seems a lot better about labeling than imr.... 16235295535903000529300229564650.jpg
 
jmorris said:
IMR is pretty easy, lots of “sticks”, long extrusions.
Click to expand...
I was expecting that after using 3031 but as a material 4227 is very pleasant to use. My current opinion is extruded is something I want to get more familiar with. The ramshot balls bounce in my pan and make a mess. Besides then I'm not competing with the progressive guys for powder. So many powders to try, so little stock available.
 
If anyone is interested the public version of GRT (think quickloads) is free to use and a good place to start. For your choice of $1 $2 $3 dollars a month, the Patreon version opens a many many more options.

There is a community open for all on Patreon where support questions and discussion can be had from very knowledgeable people from around the world.
It is professional and free from keyboard commandos, arguing, and opinion based "fact". Just download the free version and read through the documentation.

Be warned, it can be quite addictive.

https://grtools.de/doku.php
 
AJC1 said:
I was expecting that after using 3031 but as a material 4227 is very pleasant to use.
Click to expand...

You are right there “pistol” powders are a different animal. The 4227 is much shorter.

F4159BF9-163F-4514-A980-CBFEE45200BA.jpeg

And their faster ones look more like the extruded clays powder. Why “extruded” while commonality used in reference to “stick” powders, isn’t the best word to describe the kernel shape.

59A51E37-B03E-4AD2-B1A9-D9EB639196C2.jpeg

IMR also changed their process on at least 4064 and 3031 making the “sticks” shorter.
 
AJC1 said:
Holly smokes that chart is huge.
Click to expand...

Gives you an idea of the work ahead for you. Oh, and don’t forget liability insurance. I can see your insurance company doing the moon walk to get away from the phrase “gun powder”.

Such a chart would be handy sure enough. Burn rate doesn’t necessarily translate to case fill which can cause you fits when trying to cross over to a replacement powder. I’ve ended up doing what you suggest for a caliber, but not the whole ball of wax.

I’ll be a beta tester.
 
NMexJim said:
Gives you an idea of the work ahead for you. Oh, and don’t forget liability insurance. I can see your insurance company doing the moon walk to get away from the phrase “gun powder”.

Such a chart would be handy sure enough. Burn rate doesn’t necessarily translate to case fill which can cause you fits when trying to cross over to a replacement powder. I’ve ended up doing what you suggest for a caliber, but not the whole ball of wax.

I’ll be a beta tester.
Click to expand...
My intent was never to create or change positions of any powder just add readily available information from multiple sources. To say a ball powder is a ball powder is not rocket science. To list its volume per grain is also not adding liability.
 
Swampman said:
"why can't I find 25 ACP load data with IMR 4350?" type questions.
Click to expand...

I've seen a lot of that since the latest Nonsense has kicked off. Although that comment is tongue-in-cheek, I've seen some questions... and recommendations... that either have me scratching my head, or cringing. Or both.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
powder energy
Replies
2
Views
258
Ol` Joe
O
S
  • Locked
Primer burn rates?
Replies
13
Views
6K
BADUNAME27
B
C
  • Locked
Comprehensive Chart or Table of Pistol Brass Headstamps?
Replies
3
Views
248
CQB45ACP
C
S
  • Locked
powder equivalency question
Replies
23
Views
2K
witchhunter
W
J
  • Locked
Substitutin' Powder
Replies
22
Views
1K
Comrade Mike
C
Back
Top