AJC1
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I separate cases by headstamp for that reason. The next lesson is to make lots because a 1st resizing is nothing like the 10th unless your annealing regularly. Its definitely not required but brass changes and gets harder.
too much shoulder bump and using mandrel
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Varminterror
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Personally, at 8thou bump, I’d anneal, mandrel expand to .241”, and then resize to create a false shoulder, then re-fireform.
Despite the bad advice above from @milboltnut, attempting to fireform with excessive headspace is an invitation to casehead separation. For reference, in 5.56/223, 8 thou is more than double the difference between a go and no go gauge, and reminding that a go gauge should reflect fit with sized ammunition/cases, and a No-Go gauge is the upper limit for chamber length to prevent case separation due to excessive headspace...
Despite the bad advice above from @milboltnut, attempting to fireform with excessive headspace is an invitation to casehead separation. For reference, in 5.56/223, 8 thou is more than double the difference between a go and no go gauge, and reminding that a go gauge should reflect fit with sized ammunition/cases, and a No-Go gauge is the upper limit for chamber length to prevent case separation due to excessive headspace...
Yep, too much head clearance.
Sure, there are a couple of ways to save those cases, and I did with 100 .222 Mag cases, but I have three or four buckets of .223.
.222 Mag doesn’t grow on trees like .223 does.
Varminterror
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Admittedly, it’s been a while since I have bought 223 brass, so I may have wrongfully assumed 223 brass is absent from inventory this year along with so many other components.
I understand that’s it’s the best practice, for case life and potential accuracy, that minimal shoulder bump is ideal. But it appears from the above posts that the advice to full length resize back to SAAMI specs is not only bad practice, but dangerous? The directions with my sizing die says to tighten down to the ram then add another 1/4-1/3 turn. I thought it would be next to impossible to oversize a case. Where am I getting confused?
Every factory round I shoot has around .011 slop. I bump the shoulder back .006 or more every time I resize to accommodate my tightest chambered rifle. I’ve seen maybe 4 or 5 cases with the shiny ring (all Wolf Gold, I proceeded to scrap them all) out of about 4000 various head stamped cases loaded. No head separations.
I’ll have to agree with @milboltnut. Load em and shoot em. Try not to bump so much next time.
Every factory round I shoot has around .011 slop. I bump the shoulder back .006 or more every time I resize to accommodate my tightest chambered rifle. I’ve seen maybe 4 or 5 cases with the shiny ring (all Wolf Gold, I proceeded to scrap them all) out of about 4000 various head stamped cases loaded. No head separations.
I’ll have to agree with @milboltnut. Load em and shoot em. Try not to bump so much next time.
May very well be true, I know it went crazy during the last great component shortage, but I am still picking it up at the range this time around.
I don't know, I never post to size to SAMMI minimum. I generally say bump .002 for bolt, .003 or the middle of a case gauge for semi auto.
I have always said .006, or worse, is too much.
Absolutely.
If you have to bump brass back .006 from gun number one just to get it fit in another, I would have a gunsmith look at gun number one. Factory chambers can be sloppy.
.006 is a big number when it comes to headspace or head clearance.
The OP says he has plenty of .223, so saving those 75 cases isn't critical, or I would be happy to send him 100 free of charge.
If the OP wants to ask about options to save those cases without stretching/thinning the brass just above the web, he can always ask.
milboltnut
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flatsticks
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milboltnut
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Says you.... if you do this repeatedly yes separation can/will happen.... but once no. I have FL sized before I started to bump shoulders back with no separations 10 plus loadings. I had an 03' Springfield with excessive headspace that had the head started to separate, and I caught it in time and made amends.
Case head separation can indeed happen in one firing, I've seen it more than once at the range, shooter will be mystified, gun is new, ammo is new, or gun is ok, had it awhile, and I was careful sizing these rounds.
Since head clearance is something we can control, we should, but when we make a mistake we have to deal with it.
The easy way if the brass is cheap and plentiful is to scrap it. If that isn't acceptable, there are safer ways to save the cases than just load them, fire them, and let them stretch thinner above the web.
Some people take case head separations a lot less serious than I do though, lots of them here that say a case head separation is not big deal. I simply disagree with that, from the simple standpoint that we can avoid it, so why increase the chances it will happen, and hot high pressure gases coming from actions can cause damage to the gun and to the shooter. Is the risk huge? No. Is there a risk? Yes, and since I know how to avoid that risk, I do.
There are ways to save those cases without undue stretching if the OP is interested.
Since head clearance is something we can control, we should, but when we make a mistake we have to deal with it.
The easy way if the brass is cheap and plentiful is to scrap it. If that isn't acceptable, there are safer ways to save the cases than just load them, fire them, and let them stretch thinner above the web.
Some people take case head separations a lot less serious than I do though, lots of them here that say a case head separation is not big deal. I simply disagree with that, from the simple standpoint that we can avoid it, so why increase the chances it will happen, and hot high pressure gases coming from actions can cause damage to the gun and to the shooter. Is the risk huge? No. Is there a risk? Yes, and since I know how to avoid that risk, I do.
There are ways to save those cases without undue stretching if the OP is interested.
Varminterror
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Again - 100%.
Even with minimal risk to my person, the few hundred dollars of damage and downtime caused by a separation blow out simply isn’t worth the risk. Blowing out the bottom of a $75-100 AI mag, and any kind of damage to a $1000-1400 action which I rely upon for precision performance just to save a little time mandrel expanding and creating a false shoulder is just dumb.
Maybe spending extra time to recover 75pc of brass, which in normal market climates are worth next to nothing is also dumb, but equally, I’m not putting my fingers, eyes, or firearms at risk to save $50 worth of brass. Let alone risking my boy’s safety shooting my rifles.
8 thou is too much - it WILL create excessive case stretch, and it MAY cause instant separation (and it WILL weaken the case such subsequent firings may rupture even without further stretch). Bad advice is bad advice. Travel at your own risk.
milboltnut
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And varminterror is always right. Who woulda thunk ? The men of all men when it comes to handloading. Oh thy mighty varminterror ! How great is thy name it’s so wonderful! We praise you!
You and walkalong act like FL is a general practice I’m preaching here and both LOVE you juuuussst LOOOOOVE to blow out of proportion the least little thing I say. You wait like preying to stomp out a meal half starved ! A ONE time at a low charge with not too much room of a one time load is such a catastrophic error! Guess I should give up loading ammo or giving advice cause my mommies here on the high road think I should!
oh my here goes nothing ! Hey at least the OP knows his mistake without some to have to get on thier cerebral bandwagon!
I really have been trying real hard to keep my composure, but you guys are really too much... sheeeesh !
I had cases separate... my goodness, it happens, and the guns are designed and BTW SAMMI plays into the equation too, and can take ALOT more than you think IF it did happen.
You and walkalong act like FL is a general practice I’m preaching here and both LOVE you juuuussst LOOOOOVE to blow out of proportion the least little thing I say. You wait like preying to stomp out a meal half starved ! A ONE time at a low charge with not too much room of a one time load is such a catastrophic error! Guess I should give up loading ammo or giving advice cause my mommies here on the high road think I should!
oh my here goes nothing ! Hey at least the OP knows his mistake without some to have to get on thier cerebral bandwagon!
so which it Mr confident? It MAY or WILL ?
I really have been trying real hard to keep my composure, but you guys are really too much... sheeeesh !
I had cases separate... my goodness, it happens, and the guns are designed and BTW SAMMI plays into the equation too, and can take ALOT more than you think IF it did happen.
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milboltnut
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Gee I wonder why NOBODY gave this guy a hard time !
Varminterror
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You insisted on following SAAMI COAL in another thread.
Why would you ignore SAAMI standards for chamber headspace gauges in this thread? When the difference between a Go and No-Go is 3 thou, why recommend someone to fire a cartridge with over twice that in head gap?
If nothing happens, he saves $25 value in used brass. If a rupture DOES happen, it’s quite likely he’ll blow out his magazine, or worse. I’m pretty good at math, blowing up a $75-150 magazine to save $25 in used brass is a foolish move.
Additionally, the OP already mentioned the ability to mandrel expand, so 10minutes of his day to mandrel up to 6mm and then neck back down to an appropriate headspace will completely prevent any opportunity for damage... why would you recommend the OP take on risk, small as it might be, rather than taking 10min to completely eliminate the potential?
Why would you ignore SAAMI standards for chamber headspace gauges in this thread? When the difference between a Go and No-Go is 3 thou, why recommend someone to fire a cartridge with over twice that in head gap?
If nothing happens, he saves $25 value in used brass. If a rupture DOES happen, it’s quite likely he’ll blow out his magazine, or worse. I’m pretty good at math, blowing up a $75-150 magazine to save $25 in used brass is a foolish move.
Additionally, the OP already mentioned the ability to mandrel expand, so 10minutes of his day to mandrel up to 6mm and then neck back down to an appropriate headspace will completely prevent any opportunity for damage... why would you recommend the OP take on risk, small as it might be, rather than taking 10min to completely eliminate the potential?
ugaarguy
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Since y'all wanna argue and call each other names we're done until @Walkalong decides if this can be reopened.
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