6.5 creedmoor resizing and shoulder bump

[flatsticks]

Been trying to resize once fired brass from my 6.5 Creedmoor .

Get the brass to fit into the Hornandy 6.5 Creedmoor go/ no go gauge for sammi spec.

Trying to gte the 2 thousands shoulder bump and it only gets me 1 to 1.5 .

Was taking the die down in very small adjustments and it is not changing .

Measuring using the Hornandy comparator body too and two sets of calipers.

Tired the C and D body tools.

Using the same tool on 223 once fired and resized brass there is a 4 thousands difference.

The die is a Horanday full length 6.5Creedmoor die.

Have the die cranked down so far my handle on the press is not going all the way down .

Any ideas what I am doing wrong ?

 

[JFrank]

You may be overly concerned with bumping a shoulder on brass that's not ready to be bumped, in my experience it takes a couple firings.

Monitor radial expansion or just neck size until you feel bolt resistance, then adjust your die down a couple thousand.

 

[Walkalong]

die.

Have the die cranked down so far my handle on the press is not going all the way down .

Adjust the die so the handle will go all the way down like it should. As long as the shell holder or plate is just touching the die when sizing you have it down far enough. After that more doesn’t help.

Double check your measurements. And to piggyback on Jim’s post, you probably don’t need to do anything but keep that once fired shoulder where it is.

 

[Blue68f100]

You are close enough for either a simi-auto or bolt rifle. If you anneal the brass before sizing it will size easier without all the spring back.

 

[Mark_Mark]

ALRIGHT... how do you bump a shoulder ? and what does it mean?

 

[flatsticks]

Well thanks for the input all of you .

I did exactly what you said and adjusted the die so it just touches the sheel holder.

Like I said it fits in the Hornandy 6.5 gauge after resizing and in the chamber of my bolt action gun.

The once fired brass is measuring in the comparartor 1.575 , while the sized brass is measuring 1.590 .

Looking at those numbers I was thinking it was not a good thing or is that going to be ok ?

 

[JFrank]

Your brass should not be growing .015 when sized

 

[flatsticks]

Your brass should not be growing .015 when sized

That was my concern . trying to figure out where the error is .

Maybe the body comparartor is giving me false readings , used two different sets of calipers to measure.

I have an RCBS 6.5 die maybe I should try that and see what happens ?

Not sure how the die could be at fault but not sure what else to check .

I did take the decapping pin out like when I resized my 223 brass .

 

[Blue68f100]

Well thanks for the input all of you .

I did exactly what you said and adjusted the die so it just touches the sheel holder.

Like I said it fits in the Hornandy 6.5 gauge after resizing and in the chamber of my bolt action gun.

The once fired brass is measuring in the comparartor 1.575 , while the sized brass is measuring 1.590 .

Looking at those numbers I was thinking it was not a good thing or is that going to be ok ?

0.015" is a lot. this normally indicates you may have moved the shoulder back a lot or a very generous chamber.

If you want to go old school to measure it. Use a 380/9mm brass over the neck and record the reading. Then size and measure again. This will be how much you moved the shoulder back.

What part of the country are you in? If in my neck of the woods I have the go/no-go gauges to check things out with.

 

[JFrank]

ALRIGHT... how do you bump a shoulder ? and what does it mean?[/QUOTE[/QUOTE
Let's start with this illustration

 

[Mark_Mark]

that’s it? makes sense

 

[JFrank]

that’s it? makes sense

I didn't think it read well so I deleted and went with humor.

 

[JFrank]

Yeah your just creating Headspace as required.

 

[jmorris]

Like I said it fits in the Hornandy 6.5 gauge after resizing and in the chamber of my bolt action gun.

If the ammunition is for a (one) bolt action rifle, I wouldn’t worry about all the measuring. Just remove the tailstock/firing pin and FL size just enough that the bolt will fall half way to closed. This is where I generally find best case life, best accuracy. I suppose the only down side of setting the size die like this would be if you enjoy trimming away case growth from sizing it more than necessary every firing.

 

[flatsticks]

so from the sounds of it I should just use the Hornandy go / no go gauge and leave fl resize die with the shell holder just touching the way it is.

Did not get a chance to try out my other die the RCBS fl die to see if the results were the same .

Saw and read this artice below and thought maybe that was what was going on possibly with the die or shell holder.

The shellholder I have was bought used as that was all I could find at the time RCBS #3 .

https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/die-issues-when-bumping-shoulders/

 

[Charlie98]

Just remember, gauges can be tricky... they don't necessarily show you what's going on with brass from your particular rifle. There are also different type gauges that can show... or highlight... different dimensions. Your rifle's chamber is the best gauge you can use to set your sizing die.

 

[JFrank]

so from the sounds of it I should just use the Hornandy go / no go gauge and leave fl resize die with the shell holder just touching the way it is.

Did not get a chance to try out my other die the RCBS fl die to see if the results were the same .

Saw and read this artice below and thought maybe that was what was going on possibly with the die or shell holder.

The shellholder I have was bought used as that was all I could find at the time RCBS #3 .

https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/die-issues-when-bumping-shoulders/

Typically the case gets longer just before it starts to bump.
That's a very good and truthful article, more people should read and understand it also but they don't.
Your chamber is the best gage btw.

 

[JFrank]

Guys
Ill take a shot at something here but im still drinking my coffee so bare with me.
In a perfect world each die would be EXACTLY .125 shorter than your chamber and each chamber the opposite.
Now here's the gag...
Finish/chamber reamers are +or - in tolerances
SAMMI specs are + or - .004
Resize reamers that cut dies are .002 - .004 less then SAMMI specs unless you order your own reamers from JGS for example.

Starting to see the problem?
Let's say for example you have a chamber that has been reamed with a dull or slightly on the short side of the specs and a die cut to the longer side you may have a .006 difference in length or the radial/body of your case is being grossly undersized causing all kinds of problems including case head separation or stuck cases dispite brand if lube.
It is the responsibility of the re loader to understand these parameters, learn how to measure a chamber and set up a die while determining weather the die is a good fit for that chamber or does this die need to be honed or milled.

Food for thought.......from a dumb butt hillbilly

 

[jmorris]

Question comes up enough and sometimes my written word isn’t the best, so I made a short video. Might be worth the two and a half minutes it will take to watch it.

 

[JFrank]

@jmorris
Thanks buddy

 

[flatsticks]

Some good thinking there SPJ and I really appreciate the video Jmorris it shows how you are setting things up perfectly .

Since the brass is fitting into the chamber and the bolt is closing ok it makes sense to let the chamber tell you when you are sized correctly.

Guess I will see after the brsss is fully sized to the chanber if I can attain the shoulder bump needed then .

 

[jmorris]

Since the brass is fitting into the chamber and the bolt is closing ok it makes sense to let the chamber tell you when you are sized correctly.

Yes, as long as that is the only firearm the ammunition is to be used in.

 

[Blue68f100]

Guys
Ill take a shot at something here but im still drinking my coffee so bare with me.
In a perfect world each die would be EXACTLY .125 shorter than your chamber and each chamber the opposite.
Now here's the gag...
Finish/chamber reamers are +or - in tolerances
SAMMI specs are + or - .004
Resize reamers that cut dies are .002 - .004 less then SAMMI specs unless you order your own reamers from JGS for example.

Starting to see the problem?
Let's say for example you have a chamber that has been reamed with a dull or slightly on the short side of the specs and a die cut to the longer side you may have a .006 difference in length or the radial/body of your case is being grossly undersized causing all kinds of problems including case head separation or stuck cases dispite brand if lube.
It is the responsibility of the re loader to understand these parameters, learn how to measure a chamber and set up a die while determining weather the die is a good fit for that chamber or does this die need to be honed or milled.

Food for thought.......from a dumb butt hillbilly

Then you have to allow for spring back, which is around 0.002" depending on harness. So at a min you would want 0.010" short. So I would want to be able to do a min chamber so shorter is required, so reduce the length some more. Now if you were to anneal the brass prior to sizing, the spring back is greatly reduced.

Who said reloading is easy.

Like a lot of old timers here, we started way before the internet. This required use of book knowledge and if you were lucky a mentor to help you when you got in a bind. So we had to evaluate what was not right and come up with a solution. 1 step at a time. The up side is that you really learned the inter workings of how everything was intertwined together.

 

[flatsticks]

Sure is lots to learn here and everyday you all educate me more thank you !

Wish I had smebody local to teach me was supposed to be my Dad but he has not been feeling well then ended up with Covid .

He is doing ok but not much energy so I am letting him rest and get his strength back .

I only have one 6.5 creedmoor so the reloads will be for this one gun .

 

[koni]

A really simple way I learned was to take a measurement before you resize and zero out your calipers Then slowly turn your die down till you get the .002 shoulder bump your looking for

I set my die then randomly check my brass to make sure I keep that .002 bump.