Oldest Firearm I own. Queen Anne Turn Off Pistol
- Thread starter Johnm1
- Start date
No such luck. Although they show them for sale, you can pnly choose a quantity of zero. So I guess they are out as well. Maybe I was too slow to try to place the order. But thanks for the tip.
I was able to locate 0.490" balls and test them. They also are too large. I think I'm stuck using 0.480" balls. Remember the barrel slugs at 0.464" at it's narrowest point. I am unsure what the forcing cone measures. I'm not sure I want to force a ball oversized by 0.026" down a 200 year old barrel. Though I must admit the barrel looks almost as good as the day it was manufactured save some minor pitting.
The barrel is reported to have a taper to it. Something akin to a modern forcing cone. Just thinking this through a bit more and I'm not seriously considering doing this, but if I'm able to screw the barrel on, wont I be swaging the ball down to the size of the forcing cone. Wouldn't that also be the same size/diameter as the correct sized ball? The ball would be oblong, but the same diameter parallel to the bore.
While pondering this I'm going to gather up my cerro safe and cast the forcing cone.
Well, the forcing cone measures 0.472". This is measured where the center of the ball would be in the loaded position. The smallest diameter from the bore slug was 0.464". And yes, the forcing cone does taper from 0.475" where the ball sits to 0.472" at the center of the ball. The Cerro Safe casting wasn't more than another 1/8" longer than that. So I have to assume the barrel continues to taper until it reaches the 0.464" dimension.
Oddly the cast of the muzzle measures 0.475". Two different measuring devices. Calipers and a micrometer.
Oddly the cast of the muzzle measures 0.475". Two different measuring devices. Calipers and a micrometer.
I re-slugged the barrel just to be sure. It still measures 0.464". But what i ended up with was a bullet shaped round ball perfectly mated to my barrel.
A little file work to remove the damage from the hammering and it fits the chamber/forcing cone perfectly. The bullet is held tightly with the barrel screwed on and it can be screwed on by hand.
Heck, i could even load it backwards and make a wad cutter.
A little file work to remove the damage from the hammering and it fits the chamber/forcing cone perfectly. The bullet is held tightly with the barrel screwed on and it can be screwed on by hand.
Heck, i could even load it backwards and make a wad cutter.
Attachments
This is what a 0.495" ball looks like after it has been swaged into the chamber by s rewing the barrel over the ball. It was too hard to do by hand and I had to use the wrench but it didn't take very much force.
Still in the barrel
After I punched it out
I'm going to buy the 0.490 balls tomorrow and still order the 0.480" balls from Midway. I'll also pick up a temporary flint tomorrow.
Still in the barrel
After I punched it out
I'm going to buy the 0.490 balls tomorrow and still order the 0.480" balls from Midway. I'll also pick up a temporary flint tomorrow.
A smaller patched ball has always been an option and I have 0.454" round balls. They can roll out of the barrel without a patch. The interest is in shooting it the way it was intended. The original design used an oversized ball expecting it to swage down to bore size. I just don't think the design used such an oversized ball. It's not like I can call the manufacturer and ask. With a dead soft projectile like i have, is the extra diameter an issue in rasing the pressure too high.
In the picture of the projectile you can see that the ball has been swaged down for 0.200" to an approximate diameter of. 0.460". From my measurements last night I dont understand how it gets to 0.460" but I rechecked my calipers and that is what it is. There remains a 'lip' measuring around 0.750" that still needs to be swaged down to bore diameter.
Remember this started out as a 0.495 round ball. I'll have 0.490" round ball in a couple of hours.
In the picture of the projectile you can see that the ball has been swaged down for 0.200" to an approximate diameter of. 0.460". From my measurements last night I dont understand how it gets to 0.460" but I rechecked my calipers and that is what it is. There remains a 'lip' measuring around 0.750" that still needs to be swaged down to bore diameter.
Remember this started out as a 0.495 round ball. I'll have 0.490" round ball in a couple of hours.
arcticap
Member
I apologize for the oversight.
I found another place that says they're in stock and lets me put them in the cart, but who knows if they really have them.
They do list an 800 number at the bottom left of the page and have a single store in Wisconsin.
https://recobstargetshop.com/product/50-cal-480-lead-round-balls-muzzleloading-100-box/
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PWC
Member
Shooting air rifles, there is a thing called a pellet uniformer; basically swages a pellet to correct shape. Why not make several slugs and shoot them? You k ow they wouldn't hurt the gun.
no need for an apology. Leeds are a good thing. And thanks for the new one. I’ll call them tomorrow.
I have considered making the other end of the wrench into a swaging tool for just that purpose. I’d like to see what the 0.490” balls look like after they are swaged in the chamber.
I feel confident that the 480 balls will work just fine. Bit there is experimenting yet to do with 480, 485, and 490 balls.
Now the bad news. The jaw screw is stripped. I suspected this as there was a piece of leather in the threads when i bought it. I used some very thin jeweler wire to interfere with the threads and could hold the flint snug. For one shot. Annoying for now, but ultimately fixable.
On the last shot the 'upper clamp guide' fell off and ended our day.
The clamp guide appears to be an assembled piece that is soldered in place. There is a machined 'stub' on top of the hammer and a machined hole on the bottom of the guide I assume is there to aid in soldering it in place.
On the last shot the 'upper clamp guide' fell off and ended our day.
The clamp guide appears to be an assembled piece that is soldered in place. There is a machined 'stub' on top of the hammer and a machined hole on the bottom of the guide I assume is there to aid in soldering it in place.
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JN01
Member
On the plus side, the barrel didn't blow up. 
Tracing the history of the Ketland Company is maddening. I'm pretty sure there were two Companies. One in London and one in Birminham. I think the companies were complentry and not competitors though I can't figure out the real relationship. I believe the London company was more of a merchant company dealing in everything including fitrarms. I think the Birmingham company was a firearm manufacturer. To make things more confusing two sons moved to Philadelphia and started thier own company.
I found the article by Joe Puleo and that helped but it is missing a page in the middle of the article. Im sure that page has the missing link I need.
I found the article by Joe Puleo and that helped but it is missing a page in the middle of the article. Im sure that page has the missing link I need.
Well, I found a place in Tucson that has 0.480" round ball. I'll pick them up Saturday morning. I have my flints now as well. All I need to do it to repair the stripped thread and silver solder the guide back in place. I'll take care of the guide either this evening or tomorrow. Fun time ahead.
BTW - my oldest is helping me format and upload the videos of the test fire. So hopefully we'll have some more to look at in the next couple of days.
I can report that the pistol is 100% accurate at the range it was intended to be shot. Assuming that the intended range was point blank and actually touching the intended target. At less than 10' I was feet off of where I thought it would hit the target. But without sights and that big honking cock in the way, I don't know that it was intended to be shot at more than 5 foot.
So, not very often a slug like me can contradict a well considered gun guru. Although Mr. Townsend Whelend may have been correct that only accurate rifles are interesting, I can say without a doubt that a pistol doesn't have to be accurate to be interesting.
BTW - my oldest is helping me format and upload the videos of the test fire. So hopefully we'll have some more to look at in the next couple of days.
I can report that the pistol is 100% accurate at the range it was intended to be shot. Assuming that the intended range was point blank and actually touching the intended target. At less than 10' I was feet off of where I thought it would hit the target. But without sights and that big honking cock in the way, I don't know that it was intended to be shot at more than 5 foot.
So, not very often a slug like me can contradict a well considered gun guru. Although Mr. Townsend Whelend may have been correct that only accurate rifles are interesting, I can say without a doubt that a pistol doesn't have to be accurate to be interesting.
Picked up a lifetime supply of the 0.480" balls this morning. A bit expensive. And, I can turn on the barrel by hand. Using the 0.490" ball I had to use the barrel wrench to finish tightening the barrel.
Today I'll silver solder the guide back on. The other good news is the stripped flint clamp screw is a modern thread. EDIT 10X24. I started last night to make a replica from a modern bolt. I've got a ways to go but its a good start. Original bolt on the right, what i bought in the middle, and the started replica on the left.
Today I'll silver solder the guide back on. The other good news is the stripped flint clamp screw is a modern thread. EDIT 10X24. I started last night to make a replica from a modern bolt. I've got a ways to go but its a good start. Original bolt on the right, what i bought in the middle, and the started replica on the left.
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JN01
Member
Here's a jaw screw that might work: Product Detail (ssfirearms.com)
That Sir, is just awesome!
Cleared the rest of my evening as i broke my first sample trying to re-thread some of the added material off the threads.
