Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by hps1, Mar 30, 2019.
I shoot trap with a matchlock. Doubles can be tricky though.
Your post raises the question, what do you do with the "match" while handling the powder for a reload?
Winchester model 1897, from 1914. 12 gauge 30" full choke barrel. Poor old girl is worn pretty slick after 105 years of use. Finish is about gone, stock is cracked at the wrist and has been pinned, and I've replaced some of the action parts, but it's blue murder on crows when loaded with 1.25 oz of #6 shot. She's about my favorite though; you might even say she's got "character".
CBC Single-shot 12 gauge, bought at K-mart for 28 bucks, back in the 70s. Never fired. Over 100% increase in value over the years.
Do wall hangers count ? One of my late uncles acquired this 12 ga. double back in the 1950's to grace the brick area above his fire place. It was not shootable back then and still isn't. Only markings are "J Cooper" on sideplate and some Belgian proofs and a serial number on the underside of the barrel. Did some research on it and discovered it's a Belgian copy of an English gun. One of the proofs indicates being made after 1892 for export so it's probably late 19th/ early 20th century. Hammer springs don't work and hammers won't even cock but the bores don't look bad at all. Very little collector interest or value from what I could ascertain but if someone with the proper skill and knowledge and resources wanted something like this as a project they could have this one for a song. Other than that my oldest shotgun would be my fathers pre- WW2 16 ga. Iver Johnson Champion single barrel
i don't see no reason not to shoot that gun, what do you mean about non shootable.
I have a pre Browning co. FN branded A-5 made in 1911 . But earliest MADE SG I own is this 1898 Marlin , which is 12 ga 2/34 Chambers. I fired it with low base shells in 80s and 90s , tho not a lot , before I knew it was called "the widow maker" , since then stuck to a couple boxes of Navy Arms black powder #6 and #1 Buck of which I still have a few. This one was made in 1898 as it has low 4 digit serial # so being "not a firearm" I am toying with idea of cutting barrel back . The pump tube would only look good to about 17" tho , so maybe just stay at 18" . These guns have very low value, mine is probly not worth more than $250 , even tho the machine work and steel quallity appears superb ! Also they are not legal in SASS cowboy event- which I found out the hard way after buying it for that purpose 35 years ago
So I was talking with my pops about the 1897s. My great grandfather 'Doc' Otto, sheriff and veterinarian, bought the early 1897 in 1902, when he was 16. My grandpa, Leonard, WWII veteran, bought the newest 97, new in 55 or 56. My dad bought the 16 gauge.
...looks like I need to buy one now to keep tradition! (Luckily) cabelas doesnt have one in the local library.
I'd like to shoot it if I could find out what would constitute a safe load. But one hammer just flops back & forth and the other won't stay cocked. Never had it apart but there's some internal problems there for sure. I've also heard that those old Belgian shotguns are basically impossible to get replacement parts for and it wouldn't be too cost effective to pursue having parts custom made & fitted. I may still take it down someday just to see that problem for sure. The barrels appear pretty good internally with no major pitting or other problems and they don't look like Damascus barrels so if the hammers could be fixed then perhaps some mild 12 ga. loads could be used. IIRC the gun came from a flea market or something back in the 1950's and it was in its present condition then, which is why I'm sure my uncle got it cheap when he was just looking for a neat looking old double to hang over the fire place.
could be a easy fix, i have repaired and made a few parts for the sxs's i have owned. it's probably a 2 1/2 or 2 9/16 chamber. i can't tell from the pics what steel the barrels are but loading black powder shells are very easy, since i am in NY to i use pyrodex, the magtech brass shells are under a buck each, i use 2 1/2 dram loads most time that is plenty i use #6 shot most times to. the tips of the sear or cockers could be broken maybe the spring on the one. the side with the hammer that will not catch that could just be crap under the sear.
1925 Win Model 12 16 gauge with the 28" full choke/solid rib 2 3/4" chamber. ...
This is a beautiful gun. That wood
I think so too,
It's Claro walnut,
Back in the day, my dad shot a LOT of ducks with it, also several deer so it was keeping us fed...
Browning Auto 5 12 Ga. pre-WWI.
Several generations of my family with not a speck of bluing on it.
If it’s not too much trouble, would you please post a few more pictures of your Auto-5? They were only available for a few months in 1903 and then importation stopped for 20 years, so you have a rare gun.
Sure. Not home now, but I will in a bit.
A great great uncle obtained it during WWI from what I understand. I'm not sure if it was over here before, during or after the war or while he was over there.
He died and having no kids my grandfather gave it to my father. My father died and now I have it.
There's quite a few stamping on the barrel. Patent number this and that.
....... Almost forgot that on the center rib between the barrels it has a very light stamping that says " Belgium Laminated Steel", which is a form of a damascus style barrel, from what I could find out. Perhaps I should see if it is repairable now that I know the barrel style and the approximate age based on that type of barrel. I really don't need another gun project right now but I could just do a little at a time on this one as it's not something I really need. Here's that center rib:
Good story. I can decipher the marks on the barrel for you.
From research on a "Belgian laminated steel" double barrel I have, I found most said to hang it on the wall.
Started researching that today and it looks like you are correct. Also; most of those Belgian shotguns, with the exception of some of the well known makers, were low budget utility guns built for the export market which was primarily the U.S.. Tons of them were sold here through anyone wanting to offer inexpensive, utility grade guns. Unfortunately there's no real collectors market or value attached to them but I guess my late uncle was correct in that they work good for interior decorating if you like to see guns on the wall or over the fireplace mantel. I still may look into whats wrong with it just out of curiosity even if I never shoot it.
Okay. Well I'm embarrassed, it's not a Browning. It's a Remington Model 11.
Haven't pulled it out in years. Always remember it being a Browning. Guess I remembered incorrectly.
This puts it at being even older.
Mine is a Wm. Parkhurst 12ga from Belgium. That's pretty much the same info I found on mine. A working example brings $150 max.
My pops bought it to make a lamp out of, but never did. He did make one out of an old hammer fired pump gun tho lol.
It’s an easy mistake to make, it does say “BROWNING’S PATENTS” on the barrel. John Browning’s agreement with Remington is the reason they stopped importing from Belgium in 1903 and didn’t resume until 1923.
I’ve got a Remington Autoloading Shotgun from 1908. As your article states, they didn’t change the name to Model 11 until, 1911.
I don't usually make mistakes like that though.
Wouldn't they still call it a Remington model 11?
Mine is later than yours, yours looks in better shape.
Your gun’s number is 30,000 higher than mine, so it may well be a Model 11. If I call my exact same gun the same name, everyone will know what I mean but I’ll get corrected by collectors.
Whatever you call it, Remington did a terrific job with JMB’s masterpiece. I hope you take yours out and shoot it.
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