AR .22 conversation kit. Who's to pick?

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Are you talking a dedicated upper or a drop-in conversion?

I have the CMMG drop-in conversion. A little lube and it worked great right out of the box in my PSA AR and has not been too picky about brands of ammo. I use the Black Dog mags. Mine is a 1:7 barrel so it's not match-grade accuracy, but it still shoots pretty well and lets me use my actual every-day AR with rimfire ammo.
 
CMMG makes a great unit. Right To Bear supposedly get's their's from CMMG and sells at a lower price, I've never used their stuff but I've never heard a complaint on the forums.

Keep in mind what magazine you go with too. "Stock" is the mags from CMMG and Black Dog. They're well made and feel more similar to regular AR mags, but don't have bolt hold functionality on the last shot. You can also convert to the M&P 15-22 mags, the benefit here is you can pull down the follower as you load and have the bolt open feature.
 
I have a CMMG 22LR dedicated upper that I have run thousands of round through. Short of your usual 22LR duds (I'm looking @ you, remington) it has done so pretty much flawlessly. I once ran over 1,200 rounds through it over the course of several outings without cleaning just to see when it would finally choke. I ended up just cleaning it out of disgust due to it being so dirty, but it never jammed/acted up/etc. The barrel is surprisingly accurate too, 3" or smaller groups @ 100 yds are possible with the right ammo/conditions. At 50 yds its a laser beam. When I acquired it from a friend he had bought the CMMG bolt-hold kit/part (not sure if they still offer these). It doesn't lock back on an empty mag but it at least lets me lock the bolt back using the standard AR bolt catch.
 
The S&W 15-22 is a nice lightweight rifle with magazines available at a good price.

I ran across a deal on a CMMG dedicated upper. It has a short barrel so you would need a registered SBR lower or a pistol lower but it’s nice and compact. The trigger in my lower had lightened springs and was not reliable with rimfire ammo. I changed it out and it works now. Still feels heavy compared to the 15-22.
 
gun'sRgood said:
AR .22 conversation kit ... want to put an AR .22 together ... Quality precedes price.
Click to expand...
You have 3 choices:
  1. Using CMMG 22LR conversion bolt with existing .223/5.56 upper
  2. Using dedicated 22LR upper with existing lower
  3. Buying complete 22LR AR
1. 22LR really benefits from slower 1:16 twist rate barrel for accuracy. Since most .223/5.56 barrels are 1:7/1:8/1:9, your accuracy is not going to be optimal (1:12 barrel will produce greater accuracy with 22LR). This option is good if you are looking for minute-of-soda can at plinking distances and/or same manual of arms training/drills. Cost is less than $200 and availability is good.

2. Using dedicated 22LR upper with 1:16 twist barrel will produce greater accuracy but the cost will be higher and currently, availability is poor.

3. Buying complete 22LR AR may be comparable in cost to buying a dedicated 22LR upper and availability is good. If you want greater accuracy, select a rifle with barrel twist rate closer to 1:16 (S&W M&P22 has 1:15 barrel, Ruger AR22 has 1:16 barrel)
 
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I have to echo @LiveLife here.
The "drop in" conversion kits all have some sort of issue in actual practice.*
Dedicated uppers sound simple, but they always "grow" a lower eventually, so you don't really save anything.**
The fit-to-purpose version like the AR22 or M&P22 just work right out of the box.***
________________________
*This is a long list--magazine fit/issues; how the conversion bolt fits/works; and ammo issues, among others.
**Your lower reflect how you want them to feel, so one over another is no big deal.
***Check on which magazine is easiest to get in your local area to select which one to get, so you have plenty.
 
While we're on the topic, I have some bits and bobs that I have inadvertently accumulated along the way in other deals:

- A near mint older J. A. Ciener .22LR conversion kit with 3? mags.
- A complete standard sized polymer lower (serialized, not from an 80%, FWIW) that seems OK, but I don't want to put any real money into. It's currently configured with a pistol tube, no bolt/buffer.

I've often thought those two things might go well together to make an interesting range toy if I had a cheap pistol upper at 1:12 or slower, but have never found such a beast.

Suggestions are welcome...
 
I also faced the desire for a 22lr ar15, so I bit the bullet and got on a backorder list for a right to bear 16" dedicated 22lr barrel. M4 profile and 1 to 16" twist. I also ordered RTB's barrel collar, and a CMMG 22lr conversion kit with 3 mags. Popped the 22lr to 223 adapter off the cmmg kit and popped on the RTB collar. Also used a pistol cal/22 slick side upper with a smaller ejection port. Installed the barrel and slid the CMMG bolt carrier adapter system into the upper and it was done. So far I only shot a few rounds through it on the 4th of July, but it works with no hiccups. Its a LOT of fun even if it wasn't as cheap as most complete 22lr ar15 models.
 
I found a 16-inch DPMS dedicated upper and its been a great 22LR AR upper. Had a sharp burr at the chamber mouth but once that edge was broken it will even run with Remington Golden bullets and that is saying something. Changed out the M4 handguard for MOE to match the MOE stock and grip on the old Bushmaster lower. Just iron sights and a half dozen Black Dog Machinery 25 rd magazines for it. I have shot a couple local carbine matches with it in the 22LR division. And just for giggles a Fab Defense Mojo magazine well.

Kh1Hp6Fl.jpg
glZlVr9l.jpg

It's been a very fun gun.
 
I just purchased a slick side upper from RTB and a bolt kit. I’m waiting on a barrel from Beyer barrels. I wanted a pistol, but his rifle barrels are noted for good accuracy.
The conversion bolt looks nice and the upper superb. I would like to side by side compare the RTB magazines and the Black Dog magazines. These seem iffy, but that may be how they are, not ever seeing another in the wild.
Though they won’t say it, the CMMG 22lr charge handles are flexy plastic.:(
I have a Strike industry charge handle for a replacement, should be there when I get back home. I’ve heard a simple silicone fill keeps the shells from getting stuck in there, and it will feel like all the others I have.

Jump on in, @gun'sRgood! The waters fine!:D
The longer you wait to get in line, the longer you’ll wait!
 
I have used the drop-in kits while in the Army. They were okay. 22lr had better accuracy out of the M16A1 with its 1-12 rifle twist when compared to the M16A2 with 1-7 rifle twist. Neither were worth writing home about as far as accuracy went. I know that the Army didn't use the best 22lr ammo either.

I currently have 2 AR22 rifles and an AR22 pistol. The 4.5" pistol and one of the rifles have CMMG bolts and CMMG dedicated barrels. The other rifle is a Chiappa upper . I suggest sticking with CMMG stuff. I had to do a bit of work with the Chiappa to get it to shoot accurate.. The main things I did was to swap out the craptastic polymer upper receiver for an aluminum receiver and also free float handguards. The Chiappa is actually very accurate now. It still isn't as good as my rifle built with CMMG barrel and bolt.

I stick with using Black Dog Machine magazines in al three guns, BDM mags seem to be the standard for the Atchisson/Ciener/CMMG design. And they also work well with the Tactical Solutions/Chiappa design too. They will hold the bolt back by using the follower. So you have to pull the charging handle back to remove the magazines.

And as of now Right TO Bear does have CMMG make the bolts and barrels for them.
 
I have the CMMG drop in kit, never had an issue and is very accurate. Of course I have a 1:9 twist barrel, other twist rates may not be very accurate. I know with my drop in kit, I can hit pennies at 35 yrds with no magnification. At 50 yrds, maybe a 1 inch or a bit bigger group, not gonna try and hit a squirrel that far anyways.
 
kenboyles72 said:
I have the CMMG drop in kit, never had an issue and is very accurate. Of course I have a 1:9 twist barrel, other twist rates may not be very accurate. I know with my drop in kit, I can hit pennies at 35 yrds with no magnification. At 50 yrds, maybe a 1 inch or a bit bigger group, not gonna try and hit a squirrel that far anyways.
Click to expand...

Actually a 1-12 twist barrel will be more accurate than a 1-9 twist since most 22lr barrels are actually 1-16 twist. Now if you are using the Aquila 60 grain 22 ammo then you do want a faster twist rate. For all other 22lr ammo the 1-16 twist is best.

And yes I have had better accuracy out of the M16A1 with 1-12 twist over the M16A2 with 1-7 twist when using a conversion kit. Dedicated is the way to go for the best accuracy.
 
Too bad you can't get the DPMS dedicated 22lr stuff anymore. They had discontinued them even years ago and with DPMS gone now, I don't see anyone making them again.
 
I managed to grab a CMMG conversion kit with three magazines for under 200 just a couple months ago. Not nearly as accurate out of my 1:7 AR pistol as my 10/22 but does just fine in a pinch. For convenience, the kit is great. For quality, reliability, and accuracy I would pick a dedicated shelf or built rifle.
 
12Bravo20 said:
I have used the drop-in kits while in the Army. They were okay. 22lr had better accuracy out of the M16A1 with its 1-12 rifle twist when compared to the M16A2 with 1-7 rifle twist. Neither were worth writing home about as far as accuracy went.
Click to expand...
M261 conversion kit. Not too good, but it was "official." The best thing that can be said about it is that it's quite pricey as a collectible.
 
12Bravo20 said:
Actually a 1-12 twist barrel will be more accurate than a 1-9 twist since most 22lr barrels are actually 1-16 twist. Now if you are using the Aquila 60 grain 22 ammo then you do want a faster twist rate. For all other 22lr ammo the 1-16 twist is best.

And yes I have had better accuracy out of the M16A1 with 1-12 twist over the M16A2 with 1-7 twist when using a conversion kit. Dedicated is the way to go for the best accuracy.
Click to expand...
Didn't even think to ask. Thx! While I'm here, I'm told that for the 9's a 5" is the minimum length for the pistol. How about for the .22? Pistol and rifle twists the same?
 
FWIW, here's an interesting article on barrel twist rate by Schuemann Barrels -
http://allthehowards.com/pistol/barrels/Webfile_Barrel Twist Rate.pdf

I use 1:10, 1:16 and 1:24 9mm conversion barrels for my Glock 22 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...let-max-working-oal-col-for-reference.848462/

Depending on the bullet type and weight, accuracy can differ based on barrel twist rate. For uncoated lubed lead bullets, slower twist rate barrels tended to produce greater accuracy for me.

I also use 1:10 (PSA) and 1:16 carbine barrels (Just Right with 9mm/40S&W/45ACP barrel conversions) and while I do not shoot uncoated lead bullets in carbine barrels, I have shot plenty of thicker plated/jacketed bullets to 100 yards in various bullet weights and experienced good rotational stability to not see any elongated/oval holes on target from bullet wobble from either twist rate barrels.

Below is comparison target of 1:10 PSA barrel vs 1:16 Just Right carbine barrel (I found fixed stock helps produce smaller groups) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...der-9mm-load-data.874690/page-3#post-11650548

index.php


Even with short stubby 100 gr RN thick plated bullet, 100 yard target shows nice round holes reflecting rotational stability out of 1:16 barrel

index.php
 
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gun'sRgood said:
Didn't even think to ask. Thx! While I'm here, I'm told that for the 9's a 5" is the minimum length for the pistol. How about for the .22? Pistol and rifle twists the same?
Click to expand...

All of the CMMG dedicated 22lr barrels are 1-16 twist. It doesn't matter if it is their 4.5" barrel or their 20" barrel. I really enjoy my AR22 pistol built using the CMMG barrel and bolt. It is pretty accurate.

Here is my AR22 pistol

AR22P1.jpg
 
gun'sRgood said:
Didn't even think to ask. Thx! While I'm here, I'm told that for the 9's a 5" is the minimum length for the pistol. How about for the .22? Pistol and rifle twists the same?
Click to expand...
For proper function? A nine millimeter would be blow back so not really a length minimum, other than longer than the case.
Or for bullet stabilization? That would be “enough that it takes the rifling”, so at least the shank of a bullet’s worth.
Or for terminal performance? That would overlap with no other cartridge.
 
A 4.5" in a 1:16? I'd have to see it hit something to believe it. But, I'm wrong so much of the time I certainly would keep an open mind.
 
LiveLife said:
FWIW, here's an interesting article on barrel twist rate by Schuemann Barrels -
http://allthehowards.com/pistol/barrels/Webfile_Barrel Twist Rate.pdf

I use 1:10, 1:16 and 1:24 9mm conversion barrels for my Glock 22 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...let-max-working-oal-col-for-reference.848462/

Depending on the bullet type and weight, accuracy can differ based on barrel twist rate. For uncoated lubed lead bullets, slower twist rate barrels tended to produce greater accuracy for me.

I also use 1:10 (PSA) and 1:16 carbine barrels (Just Right with 9mm/40S&W/45ACP barrel conversions) and while I do not shoot uncoated lead bullets in carbine barrels, I have shot plenty of thicker plated/jacketed bullets to 100 yards in various bullet weights and experienced good rotational stability to not see any elongated/oval holes on target from bullet wobble from either twist rate barrels.

Below is comparison target of 1:10 PSA barrel vs 1:16 Just Right carbine barrel (I found fixed stock helps produce smaller groups) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...der-9mm-load-data.874690/page-3#post-11650548

index.php


Even with short stubby 100 gr RN thick plated bullet, 100 yard target shows nice round holes reflecting rotational stability out of 1:16 barrel

index.php
Click to expand...
Interesting! Are you supersonic on any of these?
 
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