I hate earmuffs

Suppressors are a bit like one-method-only hearing pro--the NRR matters.

Supersonic (typically, over 1070 fps) gunshots will meter to 155-165 dB.

A suppressor that reduces only 20 dB is a bit like plugs or muff that only reduce 20 dB--you are still coping with 135-145 dB.

A number of people (too many, actually) will quote 140 dB as "hearing safe"--that's a misapplication of the OSHA standard for "single impulse sounds" measured over an entire eight-hour shift.

Most audiologists are going to quote numbers closer to 100-110 dB as the "threshold level" for damage. Now, that's related to exposure. Eight hours around lawn machinery at 110 dB will cause damage by accumulation.

This is where "doubling up" is a success-oriented strategy.

Muffs and rifle stocks are a pain, admittedly. But, a person can get used to a lot of things. Clanking muffs off a rifle stock is not enough of a burden to give up the fun of rifle shooting. One balances the other.

Getting muffs with replacable parts, like going from foam to gel filled ear cuffs, can be a game-changer--and is well worth the extra dollars involved. In many ways, going to a spendy set of hearing pro is like buying a more expensive scope--the results can be startling.

whughett said:

Ha, Some of us would need muffs the size of shipping crates. Alfred E Neuman comes to mind.

Click to expand...

Had an IDPA morning, looked around with this thread in mind, and only found one person with muffs on top of their ears. I guess some people have bigger ears than I knew. He was entirely unaware of this, as he has the get pads on his Sordins, so all-day comfortable even then. So... Hmm.

ms6852 said:

Only use earmuffs when shooting handguns, they interfere with cheek weld if shooting a rifle.

Click to expand...

True.

I was fortunate to find a pair of earmuffs that were designed in such a way as to not interfere with cheek weld.

jdc1244 said:

True.

I was fortunate to find a pair of earmuffs that were designed in such a way as to not interfere with cheek weld.

Click to expand...

Do you happen to know what brand they are and where you got them? I have an old pair that don't interfere with cheek weld, but they were given to me by my employer probably 40 years ago, and they're getting kind of worn.
My wife has a pair of earmuffs she bought just for shooting 10 or 15 years ago. They work okay for me if I'm shooting handguns, but with rifles, there's that "cheek weld" thing.
BTW, my job (back when my employer gave me those great earmuffs) had nothing to do with shooting. I was a maintenance electrician at an elemental phosphorus plant - a very noisy elemental phosphorus plant.

I went to custom plugs under muffs to protect what’s left of my right ears’ hearing (Illness, injury and damage means I can not hear bass anymore in that one, only a tinny-treble) and slow down the worsening of ringing / tinnitus I have in both ears.

I can’t wear the larger or squareish styled muffs with long guns (Outers?) because they’ll pinch my cheek... especially when shouldering a shotgun quickly. For these I have some electronic muffs (I forgot the brand) that are a flatter-rounded shape and don’t pinch.

As much as they suck, you gotta do something. Having to ask “What!?” anytime someone speaks at you is much worse.

Stay safe.

CapnMac said:

Muffs and rifle stocks are a pain, admittedly. But, a person can get used to a lot of things. Clanking muffs off a rifle stock is not enough of a burden to give up the fun of rifle shooting. One balances the other.

Click to expand...

I don't wear muffs when shooting shotguns, except my 1100 Competition Synthetic, because of that last word. Synthetic. The stock on my Ljutic is irreplaceable*, like my hearing, so I use plugs that fit well.

* R. J . Anton has been dead a few years, and while his son-in-law makes fine stocks, it just isn't the same.

entropy said:

I don't wear muffs when shooting shotguns

Click to expand...

Valid point. I've never used a "tight" cheek weld, always used a jawline sort of weld with shotguns.
And that may be due to growing up with a Model 11.

I hate wearing earmuffs...but what I hate even more is not being able to hold a conversation with my wife, children and grandchildren because of the hearing damage I suffered from not wearing them.

doubleh said:

Try wearing a leather welding jacket doing overhead welding outside in 100 degree+ sunshine all day long for a really unpleasant experience. I a

Click to expand...

I'll take that over working in the Blueing room at Springfield Armory, which I did before I went to work for Les. A heavy leather apron, rubber boots, rubber gloves up to your elbows. A respirator is mandatory, the fumes from the tanks were deadly. I'm not talking a small blueing setup from Brownell's here. The caustic tanks at the Armory were 6' X 3' and there were two, a high and low temp setup. The caustic solution in the hotter tank could reach 300 degrees . The air temperature? A measured 130 with 100 percent humidity. Stepping outside the shop on a 95 degree day felt like stepping into an air conditioned room This was with the ventilation system working. It was the only thing that kept the room down to 130. If it quit working we had to stop blueing.

Not the most pleasant job I ever had. I did it for 6 months and I was never so happy as I was the day I could start working in the polishing room. Later that year I started working for Les.

Reminds me of working in a chrome plating shop. I quit when a co-worker that had been there less than a year coughed up a bloody loogie, and nonchalantly said, "You get used to it."

I wear custom in the ear plugs along with a good set of muffs , started that about 30 years ago . I shot a lot and worked a lot of loud jobs up until that . That damage is done, trying to preserve what I have left . I hate the thought of people talking behind my back while right in front of my face .

Wearing safety/shooting glasses is what drives me nuts , but I do it . I had aluminum dug out of my eye once , and I was wearing glasses so it could have been very bad .

Dale Alan said:

I wear custom in the ear plugs along with a good set of muffs , started that about 30 years ago . I shot a lot and worked a lot of loud jobs up until that . That damage is done, trying to preserve what I have left . .

Click to expand...

I do the same. But it really does not keep ALL the sound out. Rifle cracks really bother me with my Tinnitus. Interesting I went to my Ear Doctor for the custom plugs and later I went back to get something that kept out ALL sounds. He said that he had nothing better and said that ear plugs plus the muffs was a bad idea. Forget why he said that this is true but I still wear the doubles (plugs and muffs.)

gifbohane said:

I do the same. But it really does not keep ALL the sound out. Rifle cracks really bother me with my Tinnitus. Interesting I went to my Ear Doctor for the custom plugs and later I went back to get something that kept out ALL sounds. He said that he had nothing better and said that ear plugs plus the muffs was a bad idea. Forget why he said that this is true but I still wear the doubles (plugs and muffs.)

Click to expand...

That is interesting about doubling up being harmful , I will have to research that . I don't want to damage my ears trying to save them . I know what you mean about tinnitus , the crack is what really gets me also .

I hate earmuffs too. But they are a necessary evil with our hobby. I wear the same electronic hearing protection using my lawnmower as I do shooting. During the summer, the muffs can get pretty sweaty sitting on my head for long periods of time. With my tinnitus I will have earbuds or my electronic muffs playing music to drown out the ringing.

doubleh said:

Not the most pleasant job I ever had. I did it for 6 months and I was never so happy as I was the day I could start working in the polishing room. Later that year I started working for Les.

Click to expand...

OK, you win. That is even worse than suiting up in a rubber hooded coverall with rubber gloves, boots, and a face mask when working on the caustic or sulfuric acid systems in a gas plant in summer. All day on top of a compressor in the compressor station where it was 130 in the summer was no fun but at least it it was blue jeans and heavy work shirt and we got a 15 minute break outside in the morning and afternoon. We had to take it in a little fenced in area with no shade but 100 degrees was cool compared to inside with no breeze at all. I lasted two years but hated the general routine of the place. "If nothing is broken just look busy" was the rule and didn't come into play much but is completely stupid in my opinion. I was the welder for anything that could be built in the shop, a little tin building with a door and no windows, but we didn't have any portable equipment except an O/A rig. I found a full time welding job and left after two years.[/QUOTE]


I think nobody "wins" and we have both had extremely unpleasant, dangerous and uncomfortable jobs in our past. We can both be happy those days are in our rear view mirrors.

Don't bother me much, except that yes they get awful hot and sweaty. Then again if it's hot, I'm hot and sweaty all over anyway so they aren't the most uncomfortable part.

Don't pinch my ears or glasses so I'm good. Some electronic ones I won in a raffle many years ago, don't know the name brand.

I have a harder time getting foam or rubber plugs to actually fit my ears right and offer proper protection, and much prefer muffs.

I use the Otis Earshield with 31crating. They are amazing. But you have to put the on correctly. They re lightweight. No electronics. They changed high db noise away from the ear canal while allowing Lowe db sound to be heard so you can rear people speaking. They fold yo onto a pocket. You can read about them here: https://otistec.com/earshield-hearing-protection/

The only problem I have ever had with full ear muffs is with long guns, but some slimmer ones work for me.

Dale Alan said:

That is interesting about doubling up being harmful

Click to expand...

That's probably a "over-abundance of caution" and relating to how modern medical liability works.

It could be related to the tight skin fit of the moulded silicon plugs typically prescribed y MDs. Putting a muff over those could produce a "piston" of air in the ear canal, and that's what is being recommended against. Dunno, that's a guess.

Audiologists sometimes do not fully understand the scale/scope of the issue there.

Gunshot at 160 dB reduced by only 30-31 dB is 130 dB--which is still damaging hearing (even if OSHA will permit you to be exposed to one such sound per 8 hour shift).

Running jet engine is only about 120-130dB, so a 30dB reduction is down around 100dB, front row at Metallica.

jdc1244 said:

True.

I was fortunate to find a pair of earmuffs that were designed in such a way as to not interfere with cheek weld.

Click to expand...

You mind sharing which earmuffs you use?

I don't hate 'em. Better up here than using 'em outside in desert climes. Yes, they interfere with shooting rifle from the bench for me. But there's so many out there that are much more comfortable than they used to be. Pro Ears (you definitely pay for the higher quality and increased comfort) and Walker's fit me well and don't hurt my ears, even after a few hours (though talking them off when leaving the range is akin to getting one's ski boots off in the lodge after a long day on the slopes, major relief).

gifbohane said:

Interesting I went to my Ear Doctor for the custom plugs and later I went back to get something that kept out ALL sounds. He said that he had nothing better and said that ear plugs plus the muffs was a bad idea.

Click to expand...

Strange. The first couple consults I had with specialists for my tinnitus, they told me to double up -- either foam or custom plugs plus muffs. I lost a substantial amount of my hearing and have constant tinnitus that is really annoying. I don't know anyone else who's been a long-time firearms instructor who doesn't suffer the same issues.

Wish I'd been able to do that at least at the range in the military -- typically only used rubber or foam ear plugs until my last deployments when we got the bulky MSA/Sordin muffs w/comm gear. Of course, most of my hearing lost was caused during the periods of loud noise when we didn't use hearing protection.

I use Pro Ears and Walker's electronic muffs with a 27 or 28NRR (got a pair of 31`NRR, but they're honkin' huge) now and still double up with foam plugs indoors.

gifbohane said:

I went to my Ear Doctor for the custom plugs and later I went back to get something that kept out ALL sounds. He said that he had nothing better and said that ear plugs plus the muffs was a bad idea.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't trust that doctor ever again.


The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health actually recommends using both earplugs and earmuffs together when shooting.

My Walker's Razor slim line muffs finally gave up the ghost - I think too much flexing of the wiring where it comes out of the case and goes into headband caused an intermittent open circuit. Since I had a bunch of Scheel's gift cards laying around, I decided to spring for the best Walker's that Scheel's had in stock: the Walker's Razor "Xtrm" ($80) which are both lower profile and lighter, not to mention having a padded headband and gel-filled muff cushions. They are certainly more comfortable and also seem to produce a much tighter acoustic seal around my ears. I haven't actually used them while shooting yet, but I think I might even try using them without my usual double-protection foam ear plugs, at least once, to see how well they do, they're that impressive. Also, the new muffs have flexible reinforcement cuffs around the wires where they exit the muff casing, apparenrtly to remedy the failure I experienced with the old pair.