Pistol 9 to rifle 9

I hope you can 'cause I bought 16" barrels for the braced pistols I have, just in case I need to change them out to stay legal.
Watching for validation from someone who knows.

berettaprofessor said:

Let’s say, for argument, that I have a Foxtrot Mike FM9 with an 8 inch barrel and an SB3 brace. If I buy a complete upper with a 16” barrel and swap the uppers, is it legal to leave on the brace or does the stock also have to be swapped? Assuming the overall length is now at least 26 inches?

If it’s legal to leave the brace on with a 16” barreled upper, does having continued possession of the now-unattached 8 inch barreled upper constitute a violation of the law?

thanks. Just trying to preserve what I can if there is a brace ruling and prepare for the inevitable run on 16” barreled uppers.

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Once a rifle always a rifle, once a pistol then it can be made into a rifle "if the receiver is striped down first". Not sure exactly what that means but I assume it refers to removing the pistol upper from the lower and not completely disassembling the lower.

berettaprofessor said:

If I buy a complete upper with a 16” barrel and swap the uppers, is it legal to leave on the brace or does the stock also have to be swapped?

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Why would you want to keep the inferior brace on a rifle? Stocks are cheap

or, Just take the brace off and you still have a pistol.

berettaprofessor said:

Yes, that I realize, but it's not what I asked. My second question is probably the most important one; can I keep both uppers and not have it constitute "intent" even if I never mate the 8" upper to a lower. I might eventually go the registration/stamp/SBR route, but I might not right away and I don't want to have to toss the 8"upper in the trash while I'm thinking about it. Or I might make a second pistol with a buffer tube only eventually. I just don't want to be illegal while I'm mulling it over. But, like Cemetery21, I'm thinking about a backup plan.

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I don't think the brace is a problem on a rifle currently but once you make it a rifle (add the 16" barrel) you can't go back. Keeping the 8" upper would only be considered "intent" if some far left politician or LEO knows you have it and makes an issue out of it. I seriously doubt ATF will come knocking on your door just because you have an 8" upper.
Continuing to keep the brace on will be conditional based on the ATF's final ruling on brace stocks and any legal challenges arising from such a ruling.

I don't mind the brace either. I do have carbine stocks, if needed.
In my case, if braced pistols became SBRs, I'd replace my 10.5" barrels with 16s and hope I'm okay. I guess that does depend on pending changes to regulations. Just trying to keep current on that is a challenge.

Cemetery21 said:

from someone who knows.

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That list has about zero members on it, sadly.

We can see what has been previously been allowed, but the people in charge of enforcing that have picked up the ball and are going home with it, refusing to play by one set of rules. (Not at all helped by the fact that everyone was playing by the rules they wrote, too.)

Used to be, they could simply make decisions one at a time, and that would be that. Then, everybody got into legos, and that "everybody" included people making the legos, too. So, suddenly, it was not 3 or 4 submissions for review in a year, but 3 or 4 in a given day. And the inquiries increased, too. It was no longer "If I have A, can I add B?" Instead, it was "Hey, you said B was good on A, so can I use C on D?" Or, it was, "G just came out, can I put it on ß; you said E was good on A, right?

The only thing a bureaucrat hates more than having to work a five day week is to work and eight hour day for that week. So, we get Proposed Rule Changes, which all amount to "We get to pick; but we'll pretend we have an impartial, objective measurement, now stop bothering us."

CapnMac said:

Cemetery21 said:

Watching for validation from someone who knows.

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That list has about zero members on it, sadly

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Having lived in CA through implementation of all the crazy gun laws, we have learned to go right to the source whenever question came up as to what is compliant and not compliant. For us, that is the actual laws and regulations - https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regs

Since this is "High Road", I always recommend we comply with applicable federal/state/local laws and regulations while cases go through the courts. And keep in mind that laws and regulations do change over time and what was "compliant" may change to "not compliant".

berettaprofessor said:

Foxtrot Mike FM9 with an 8 inch barrel and an SB3 brace ... complete upper with a 16” barrel and swap the uppers, is it legal to leave on the brace or does the stock also have to be swapped? Assuming the overall length is now at least 26 inches?

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As to converting pistol to rifle and back to pistol, direct from ATF website (for now) - https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-pistol-rifle-without-registering-firearm

berettaprofessor said:

If it’s legal to leave the brace on with a 16” barreled upper ...

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I read "attached shoulder stock, is not an NFA firearm if it has a barrel of 16 inches or more in length". If you are not sure whether your brace is compliant "shoulder stock", simply attach a shoulder stock. (In CA, we further need to meet state laws by removing qualifying "features")

berettaprofessor said:

... does having continued possession of the now-unattached 8 inch barreled upper constitute a violation of the law?

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It was legal when you bought your pistol and you are keeping it as part of your "pistol". Right? And I take "... again configured as a pistol" to mean putting 8" upper back.

And it is my understanding if you don't intend to return the 16" rifle back to pistol, then 8" upper could be used to build another pistol.

^^^ Thanks. That's what I thought I knew (for now).

kje54 said:

Once a rifle always a rifle, once a pistol then it can be made into a rifle "if the receiver is striped down first". Not sure exactly what that means but I assume it refers to removing the pistol upper from the lower and not completely disassembling the lower.

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It's gibberish. Where did you read that?
Prior to ATF Ruling 2011-4 https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/r...red-rifles-rifles-configured-pistols/download the adage was "Once a rifle, always a rifle".
The reason for this ATF Ruling was due to US vs Thompson Center in 1992. It only took ATF nineteen years to issued the ruling.

So........since 2011 the adage is "First a rifle, always a rifle". You can lawfully go from pistol>rifle>pistol as often as you want. You cannot reconfigure a firearm that was originally a rifle into a pistol. Ever.

berettaprofessor said:

Yes, that I realize, but it's not what I asked. My second question is probably the most important one; can I keep both uppers and not have it constitute "intent" even if I never mate the 8" upper to a lower. I might eventually go the registration/stamp/SBR route, but I might not right away and I don't want to have to toss the 8"upper in the trash while I'm thinking about it. Or I might make a second pistol with a buffer tube only eventually. I just don't want to be illegal while I'm mulling it over. But, like Cemetery21, I'm thinking about a backup plan.

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If the firearm was originally configured as a pistol, you can subsequently assembly as a rifle and do so as often as you want.
Read the ATF Ruling above.

kje54 said:

I don't think the brace is a problem on a rifle currently but once you make it a rifle (add the 16" barrel) you can't go back. .

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Please stop.
Your advice is been incorrect for a decade.

dogtown tom said:

Please stop.
Your advice is been incorrect for a decade.

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Sorry, but I was unaware it had changed. Matter of fact I'm still getting that information from legal sites that deal with firearms laws/regs. Guess they don't know either. Again sorry.

Post #11 has the correct information. Some of the previous ones don't.

Now here is the kicker when it comes to braced pistols and the new proposed regulation. If this goes through, there is one class of owner that is going to be in bad shape, and that is folks who purchased a pistol that was already configured with a brace, whether just a lower of a complete pistol. If that configuration passes muster (doubtful with an SBA3), then you can leave it as a pistol. However, if it fails the ATF classification, then ATF is going to consider that it has been a rifle all along. In that case, just removing the brace doesn't solve your problem, since in their eyes you are in possession of an SBR. So, you will then need to either register as SBR and pay your two Benjamins, put a 16" or greater barrel on it, or destroy it. If you go with either option 1 or 2, why would you want to keep the brace, since, as has been already mentioned, stocks are cheap, and much more effective?

If you built it yourself as a pistol, then you can go back and forth as much as you want, but you probably won't be allowed to put a brace on it without running afoul of creating an SBR unless y0u are 100% sure that you meet the new criteria, but even then ATF reserves the right to override it subjectively.

Sistema1927 said:

Post #11 has the correct information. Some of the previous ones don't.

Now here is the kicker when it comes to braced pistols and the new proposed regulation. If this goes through, there is one class of owner that is going to be in bad shape, and that is folks who purchased a pistol that was already configured with a stock, whether just a lower of a complete pistol.

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If someone purchased a pistol with a shoulder stock they already have problems.

dogtown tom said:

If someone purchased a pistol with a shoulder stock they already have problems.

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If you notice, I fixed that and changed "stock" to "brace" not long after posting. However, it isn't far off, since if, under the new regs, ATF says that your configuration doesn't pass muster, you will have purchased an SBR with a "stock" (even though you thought that you purchased a "brace"), and will then need to either register, convert to rifle, or destroy.

<uncorroborated allegations deleted>