2400 vs Unique?

Slamfire said:

after shooting, I clean my guns.

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Revolutionary!

Unique is what most consider "Jack of all trades" Master of NONE. Yes it works but I find other powders work better and cleaner. And I don't have the headache of it's poor metering properties. I use WSF most anywhere Unique is used, meters good, easier to see, burns cleaner.

2400 will give you more velocity in barrels longer than 6".

I’ll disagree respectfully with the title “master of none”, as I feel near its universal versatility within a specific set of parameters is a form of mastery.

It masters light and mid range loads from .32 S&W to .454 Casull. It assembles accurate, consistent, forgiving loads that can go from hunting to formal competition in the same handful of cartridges (proper bullet of course!) It can literally be left in the powder measure as you switch charge amounts and dies as you go from loading .32 S&W to .454 with no issues.

Can’t do that with every powder, especially those that really are a master a specific niche (High power H-110 loads for example.)

HP-38/W231 is another very versatile powder I hold with the same esteem as Unique. I got to the HP-38 party several years after I learned how to reload Unique, but I’ve found it’s another one that can easily go from cartridge to cartridge as you load.

Again, one can be a master of specific trades while also being good at many others… kinda like Unique is in its powerband.

Stay safe.

If I was restricted to a single cartridge with a single load, it would be 7.5 grains of Unique with a 250 grain "true" Keith bullet in the .44 Special. I consider it the single best revolver load in existence, at least for my purposes, and so also consider Unique to be more-or-less essential.

At the end of the day there's no real comparison between 2400 & unique. 2 vastly different powders.

Myself I'd be taking a hard look at bullseye powder over unique if you're looking for common range loads. Bullseye is better than unique when using the logic the op did with use of less powder compared to velocity loss. Bullseye really shines with it's ability to down loaded in target loads that burn clean and perform at extremely high levels accuracy wise. And don't fool yourself bullseye does pretty good with high pressure loads as well.

Everyone has their favorite spotted puppy, mine's bullseye. If I need something hotter I'll reach for 2400 before I'd even think about using unique.

Riomouse911 said:

I’ll disagree respectfully with the title “master of none”, as I feel near its universal versatility within a specific set of parameters is a form of mastery.

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+1

I know a lot of people poo-poo Unique, for various reasons... most largely unfounded. People complain about it's poor metering... most flake powders don't meter that well, anyway, but I've found that Unique isn't really that sensitive to small variances in charge weight in general use. As far as being a dirty burner, almost any powder will not burn efficiently at some point in a specific charge range and application... including 2400 (mentioned in the OP) and a good number of obvious others.

forrest r said:

Everyone has their favorite spotted puppy

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True that. I like to think of Unique as the Blue Heeler of handgun powders...

My favorite spotted puppy, his name is Lanedog. He's a double masked blue heeler

Well... if you have a Heeler, then you'll know why I akin Unique to them. Simply the workhorse of the puppy world, or powder world.

Rusty says... 'HI!'

I have found Unique an extremely versatile propellant. I use in 44 S&W Special. 44 Mag, 45 ACP, and 357 Mag. It has always found its way into many a 12 gauge and 16 gauge target loads. Now if I could just get my grubby paws on a couple of kegs, I would be set until end times.

“Master of none”! I respectfully disagree. Take a look at the Lyman Manual and see how many times Unique is highlighted for “potentially most accurate load” for rounds like .44 Special and .45 Colt. The book ain’t lying! Give me a pound of Unique and I can make you a good shooting round for just about any popular pistol round. My favorites, .44 Special, .45 ACP, .38 Specialand mild .357 Magnums.

wcwhitey said:

“Master of none”! I respectfully disagree. Take a look at the Lyman Manual and see how many times Unique is highlighted for “potentially most accurate load” for rounds like .44 Special and .45 Colt. The book ain’t lying! Give me a pound of Unique and I can make you a good shooting round for just about any popular pistol round. My favorites, .44 Special, .45 ACP, .38 Specialand mild .357 Magnums.

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I know you really like Unique but I feel the same about W231. I can, like you, load most of my handgun cartridges with it.
I can be happy with just 3 handgun powders, W231(or the newer W244), HS-6 (or the newer W572) and W296.

Just a note, Universal is just about as versatile as Unique and can make a good substitute if you can't find Unique. (IMO of course)

ArchAngelCD said:

Just a note, Universal is just about as versatile as Unique and can make a good substitute if you can't find Unique.

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Unique is universal, Universal is not Unique... (Just kidding... I know they are quite close... but I love saying that.)

Interesting... W231/HP38 comes up a LOT when talking about 'universal' handgun powders... I've never really thought that highly of it, and particularly compared to Unique.

This has been an interesting read. I especially liked the pics of the spotted puppies and Slamfire's dirty revolvers. I can relate to both. I started looking for a powder I could easily live with to feed my .357s. I tried 4227, W296, H110, N110, 2400, and a couple of others. I really liked N110 but more or less settled on 2400. A lot of that was due to price and availability. I was(am) looking for a powder that would give upper mid range loads with 2 and 4 inch barrels.. As those barrels are generally on the short side, I saw some pretty impressive fireballs. Here's the caveat. I also prefer a powder that fills the case at least half way. Something that hasn't been really discussed is, how much volume does Unique require? Just for fun, how much of a .357 case would 6.6 grains of Unique fill?

Unique is pretty bulky, you would get good case fill in the .357. Upper range is where Unique works best, but just remember, it's not W296. Unique will give you a bit of a fireball... but nothing crazy... no more than W231 or some of the other fast burners, and certainly not W296!

mokin said:

This has been an interesting read. I especially liked the pics of the spotted puppies and Slamfire's dirty revolvers. I can relate to both. I started looking for a powder I could easily live with to feed my .357s. I tried 4227, W296, H110, N110, 2400, and a couple of others. I really liked N110 but more or less settled on 2400. A lot of that was due to price and availability. I was(am) looking for a powder that would give upper mid range loads with 2 and 4 inch barrels.. As those barrels are generally on the short side, I saw some pretty impressive fireballs. Here's the caveat. I also prefer a powder that fills the case at least half way. Something that hasn't been really discussed is, how much volume does Unique require? Just for fun, how much of a .357 case would 6.6 grains of Unique fill?

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Silhouette gives good case fill at 8.4 grains and has a flash suppressant.

Unique is basically flammable dirt. It did give some decent velocities but you had to bring the handguns back in a ziplock bag or the soft cases were dirty, your hands were dirty, etc. There are other powders out there that work better for me, YMMV. (just a couple weeks ago I gave my last 2#s of it to a friend of a friend, no compensation needed.)

Charlie98 said:

Unique is universal, Universal is not Unique... (Just kidding... I know they are quite close... but I love saying that.)

Interesting... W231/HP38 comes up a LOT when talking about 'universal' handgun powders... I've never really thought that highly of it, and particularly compared to Unique.

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Agreed and seconded. Unique is my Standard. All other powders are compared to that Standard. Ex: For long range .30 caliber rifles, IMR 3031 compares favorably to Unique; conversely, I have never seen or read of a .32 caliber pistol load for IMR 3031. Anyone who doesn’t get the point of that comparison is deliberately avoiding it.

I don't agree with the "Unique vs. 2400?" title. The two powders are intended to serve different functions.

Unique has been around since the early days of the 20th Century. During that time, it has been subjected to investigation and experimentation in regard to using it in a number of cartridges. Unique can be used in a multitude of handgun, shotgun and rifle cartridges. However, the rifle cartridges so powered are rather lessened in velocity.

Unique shines brightest in shotgun rounds and medium to high powered handgun loads. Unique tends not to function as well as it might in smaller calibers and lighter loads. The complaint of Unique being 'smokey' is covered by Charlie98; too little a charge of Unique - or most anything - will not burn properly or as well as when used in the pressure range for which it is suited.

2400 likely can be used in may rifles, but not in as many handgun cartridges. However, 2400 can be used at higher pressures then Unique and gives higher velocities in similar length handguns (revolvers mostly) than Unique. 2400 is rather unsuited for smaller handguns than 38 caliber or thereabout and not so good in semi-automatics in general.

The question is much like: Which is best, a Ford Escort, a Ferrari, or a John Deere tractor? It depends on if one is going for groceries, driving cross country or plowing.

brasscollector said:

Unique is basically flammable dirt. It did give some decent velocities but you had to bring the handguns back in a ziplock bag or the soft cases were dirty, your hands were dirty, etc. There are other powders out there that work better for me, YMMV. (just a couple weeks ago I gave my last 2#s of it to a friend of a friend, no compensation needed.)

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I thought flaming dirt was reserved for 4227.

Unique is working well for me but not in hot loads. It is not a magnum powder, so recoil of high end loads can be quite harsh and presumably with a sharp pressure spike.

Archie said:

I don't agree with the "Unique vs. 2400?" title. The two powders are intended to serve different functions.

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Yes and no. Depending on the cartridges, 2400 is just as worthy of the 'one powder for all' as Unique... as long as we aren't talking 9mm, 32ACP, .38SPC... and other smaller cartridges. You could very easily single out 2400 if all you load is .357, .41, 44, or .45 Colt; granted, they aren't going to be plinking loads. It just depends.

RealGun said:

Unique is working well for me but not in hot loads. It is not a magnum powder, so recoil of high end loads can be quite harsh and presumably with a sharp pressure spike.

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It took me a very long time to come to that realization. In reality, I was always put off by the muzzle blast slower powders like 2400 and, say, W296... thinking more blast equaled more recoil. As I transitioned to heavier bullets in the .41, for example, and the requisite slower powder needed to push those heavies out of the barrel... I came to realize there was a marked difference in the recoil impulse, even given the kinetic differences higher velocity introduces into felt recoil. I have since relegated Unique to mid- and upper-midrange loads, and left the heavy lifting to slower powders like IMR4227 and W296. The right tool for the job.

I don’t see the flammable dirt thing. I use Unique in all my pistol rounds and have no problems with metering or dirtyness. I do bring the pressure up enough to make it burn clean. If I want mouse phart loads I use Trail Boss.

Charlie98 said:

Yes and no. Depending on the cartridges, 2400 is just as worthy of the 'one powder for all' as Unique... as long as we aren't talking 9mm, 32ACP, .38SPC... and other smaller cartridges. You could very easily single out 2400 if all you load is .357, .41, 44, or .45 Colt; granted, they aren't going to be plinking loads. It just depends.

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I more or less agree with your statement, except it does feature a logical flaw. Nothing is useful for all pertinent matters 'except for'. Those two clauses are logical contradictions.

Archie said:

Those two clauses are logical contradictions.

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It depends on the sample set.

"Give me a good powder to load .357, .41, .44MAG, and .45 Colt heavies..." and 2400 would be a valid answer. As soon as you add the OP's "...9mm and 45ACP..." it turns into an impossibility. Unique would be a valid answer for all of that. Would it be the best choice? Likely not... which returns us to your comment...

Archie said:

I don't agree with the "Unique vs. 2400?" title. The two powders are intended to serve different functions.

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...which I also more or less agree with.