"You never clean a .22 rifle"

I posted earlier but I wanted to add I usually run a bore snake through my Henry a time or two and that’s it. I wipe down the exterior too. This started after some ammo or other left what looked like sawdust, but very fine, in the barrel. The brass bead on the bore snake pushed most of it out.

For my Marlin 60s I run a bore snake through them once in a blue moon but clean the action more regularly.

Rimfire barrels that have only waxed target ammo through them often need less cleaning than those that have had "bright metal" copper-coated bullets through them. There are no copper particles in the leade area when the target ammo is used exclusively. Lube in those rounds is just wax and is cleaned out of the bore with each subsequent shot. Cleaning those barrels may not be necessary, unless it's rough, but I still do it to a lesser degree.

However; Rimfire bores should NEVER be cleaned from the muzzle end, but by the breech end. The most critical part of the bore is the last inch or so from the muzzle. Wear in that part of the bore can cause early accuracy deterioration, especially if a well-fitting rod guide is not used.

I use a solid stainless steel rod in conjunction with a bore guide in my 22's. I have a short rod for cleaning the chamber and just ahead in which area can get a build up. I also run a wet patch or two through the entire barrel with the regular rod and then patch it dry about every 200 rounds. They usually will be right back to normal groups within two five shot groups.

mcb said:

The theory is that the clean barrel will not shoot as good (as tight of groups) as one "seasoned" with the particular lubricant (wax and or oil) that is on the 22LR ammunition you are shooting. In theory a clean bore should return to a season bore in a modest number of rounds.

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I begin a Smallbore Prone match with a clean and oiled barrel, and I fire two rounds into the berm and after that the zero is stable. I think one round is good enough, and I have noticed on the sighting bull, that the first round down a cleaned and oiled barrel does print to a different point of impact. But not the second, but I am making sure nothing funny happens by firing two foulers.

And, when changing ammunition types and brands mid match, it does not make a difference whether I fired "fouling shots" with the new ammunition. The only thing that matters is that I have the correct elevation and windage on, which is more noticeable the greater the distance. Different lots have different velocities and I have to take that into account. Eley Edge uses a dry lube, probably some sort of baked on teflon, and it shoots to the same point of impact (more or less) as Eley with the beeswax lube.

Pistols, same thing. First shot from a clean and oiled barrel goes wild. I tend to over oil, and the first shot downrange with a 22 lr pistol, the oil spray out of the action resembles steam from a locomotive. So I will shoot two into the berm to "smooth" everything out.

SWG Gunsmith.
Had the top of the aluminum slide milled off on the old High Standard 22 short kit. Tried shooting the shorts in the Victor barrel. Accuracy not good, as i remember.
Used short kit on the other High Standard Trophy, for ISU rapid fire back in the 1970s. Score zone larger to fire 5 shot in 4 seconds, on 5 targets .
Also had a Ruger MK1 5.5" vented. Consisted of 8 hole drilled into the rifling rignht in front of the chamber/receiver. Still shot 22LR. What a flamethrower. Made it almost recoil less. Lost lots of velocity.

Slamfire said:

I begin a Smallbore Prone match with a clean and oiled barrel, and I fire two rounds into the berm and after that the zero is stable. I think one round is good enough, and I have noticed on the sighting bull, that the first round down a cleaned and oiled barrel does print to a different point of impact. But not the second, but I am making sure nothing funny happens by firing two foulers.

And, when changing ammunition types and brands mid match, it does not make a difference whether I fired "fouling shots" with the new ammunition. The only thing that matters is that I have the correct elevation and windage on, which is more noticeable the greater the distance. Different lots have different velocities and I have to take that into account. Eley Edge uses a dry lube, probably some sort of baked on teflon, and it shoots to the same point of impact (more or less) as Eley with the beeswax lube.

Pistols, same thing. First shot from a clean and oiled barrel goes wild. I tend to over oil, and the first shot downrange with a 22 lr pistol, the oil spray out of the action resembles steam from a locomotive. So I will shoot two into the berm to "smooth" everything out.

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Notice I said, "The theory". I don't necessarily buy all of it. But I do know that the first shot or two after cleaning will not go were the rest will as you also indicate. I have proven that to myself over and over with 22LR and centerfire guns. I would not want to start any type of precision shooting or hunting with a clean bore.

Have you ever started with a clean gun shot your two fouling shots and then start shooting groups? Is the first group after fouling as tight at the group 200 rds later? Some claim that the groups will tight over the next few groups. It would be a fun test if I ever bother to clean my gun.

My 10/22 got a new barrel (technically, new to me used barrel) 20+ years ago and I have never run a brush down it. After a wet hunt/match I might use a patch puller and pull a dry patch to make sure there is no moisture and then the a few drops of CLP into the chamber and pull a brushless bore snake to spread the oil down the bore. Foul it before the next match.

I do my best to not change ammo mid match with NRL 22 matches not only do you need your zero but you ballistic chart worked up for holds at various ranges. That said I change ammo without worrying about cleaning. By the time I get chrono data and a good 50 yard zero and verify my ballistic table workup I have more than "seasoned" the barrel to the new ammo.

mcb said:

Notice I said, "The theory". I don't necessarily buy all of it. But I do know that the first shot or two after cleaning will not go were the rest will as you also indicate. I have proven that to myself over and over with 22LR and centerfire guns. I would not want to start any type of precision shooting or hunting with a clean bore.

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I know, and shot with an F Class female National Champion that will not clean her barrel. Claims it takes rounds before it groups predictably. And she gets mad at her husband if he cleans the barrel out!

Have you ever started with a clean gun shot your two fouling shots and then start shooting groups? Is the first group after fouling as tight at the group 200 rds later? Some claim that the groups will tight over the next few groups. It would be a fun test if I ever bother to clean my gun.

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This is match one, stage one, 50 yards prone with a sling, at a four day regional.



Started with a clean barrel, shot two in the berm, then worked my way through the sighter bulls, and then the record bulls. And I shot very well for irons. And at the end of the day, the rifle is still quite capable of shooting the same small groups, but I am blown, dehydrated, physically beaten down, and am not capable of holding as tight. And the next day, given same everything, I could have shot a similar tight score, for the first target of the day, with an uncleaned barrel from the day before. As a rule, in a four day match, I clean the tube every two days. I usually check the cocking cam for grease, and the locking lugs, and add more if needed, every day. I have not yet tried to go four days without cleaning the tube.

This is the targets from a good shooter, this 50 yard target was M1, S1 or S2.



and this is the same shooter after 160 rounds, at 50 meters, which would have been M4, S1 or S2.



I don't see any decrease in accuracy.

My 10/22 got a new barrel (technically, new to me used barrel) 20+ years ago and I have never run a brush down it. After a wet hunt/match I might use a patch puller and pull a dry patch to make sure there is no moisture and then the a few drops of CLP into the chamber and pull a brushless bore snake to spread the oil down the bore. Foul it before the next match.

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Might depend on the barrel and chamber. My Ruger 10/22, I could place a round in the chamber and rock it by pressing on the rim. That rifle was built so it would go bang without every being cleaned. The chamber was huge! I am not certain it had a throat, must likely just a long taper that ended at the muzzle. Something like that needs crud to stabilize a bullet.

I have a pistol story. A shooting bud, on his Divisional Pistol team, they were issued rack grade 1911's for Bullseye Matches. The Team Captain, an old USMC team shooter, told his men to pack their 1911's with grease and fire 500 rounds. And not clean the pistols during, or after the 500 rounds. Once these 1911's were filled with icky, powder residue filled grease, they would hold the black, even at 50 yards. And if you could hold the black, you will get tens. I assume they went the whole season with crud filled 1911's. That is one way to fill the pores!

Slamfire said:

I know, and shot with an F Class female National Champion that will not clean her barrel. Claims it takes rounds before it groups predictably. And she gets mad at her husband if he cleans the barrel out!



This is match one, stage one, 50 yards prone with a sling, at a four day regional.

View attachment 1026783

Started with a clean barrel, shot two in the berm, then worked my way through the sighter bulls, and then the record bulls. And I shot very well for irons. And at the end of the day, the rifle is still quite capable of shooting the same small groups, but I am blown, dehydrated, physically beaten down, and am not capable of holding as tight. And the next day, given same everything, I could have shot a similar tight score, for the first target of the day, with an uncleaned barrel from the day before. As a rule, in a four day match, I clean the tube every two days. I usually check the cocking cam for grease, and the locking lugs, and add more if needed, every day. I have not yet tried to go four days without cleaning the tube.

This is the targets from a good shooter, this 50 yard target was M1, S1 or S2.

View attachment 1026784

and this is the same shooter after 160 rounds, at 50 meters, which would have been M4, S1 or S2.

View attachment 1026785

I don't see any decrease in accuracy.



Might depend on the barrel and chamber. My Ruger 10/22, I could place a round in the chamber and rock it by pressing on the rim. That rifle was built so it would go bang without every being cleaned. The chamber was huge! I am not certain it had a throat, must likely just a long taper that ended at the muzzle. Something like that needs crud to stabilize a bullet.

I have a pistol story. A shooting bud, on his Divisional Pistol team, they were issued rack grade 1911's for Bullseye Matches. The Team Captain, an old USMC team shooter, told his men to pack their 1911's with grease and fire 500 rounds. And not clean the pistols during, or after the 500 rounds. Once these 1911's were filled with icky, powder residue filled grease, they would hold the black, even at 50 yards. And if you could hold the black, you will get tens. I assume they went the whole season with crud filled 1911's. That is one way to fill the pores!

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Nice shooting! I would not say your data proves that but it certainly does not disprove that a 22LR will shoot tighter groups the more you shoot it after cleaning as your score was better on the second two days. Just subjectively looking at the targets without measuring your second day seems the smallest groups even if the score is the same as the third.

My 10/22 is far from stock. It's like that good old axe, it's had two heads, and three handles, but it's been a good old ax. It currently has an old 20-inch Clerke match barrel on it with a fairly tight chamber.


50 yard 5-shot group

100 yard 5-shot group

Both groups are some of my better ones, both shot from the bipod and rear bag on a portable shooter table. It has never been cleaned and its been several years since I last pulled a patch through it. I think it would get more consistent for me if the barrel was actually free floated. The current stock is not free floated.

mcb said:

Nice shooting! I would not say your data proves that but it certainly does not disprove that a 22LR will shoot tighter groups the more you shoot it after cleaning as your score was better on the second two days. Just subjectively looking at the targets without measuring your second day seems the smallest groups even if the score is the same as the third.

My 10/22 is far from stock. It's like that good old axe, it's had two heads, and three handles, but it's been a good old ax. It currently has an old 20-inch Clerke match barrel on it with a fairly tight chamber.
View attachment 1026801
View attachment 1026802
50 yard 5-shot group
View attachment 1026803
100 yard 5-shot group

Both groups are some of my better ones, both shot from the bipod and rear bag on a portable shooter table. It has never been cleaned and its been several years since I last pulled a patch through it. I think it would get more consistent for me if the barrel was actually free floated. The current stock is not free floated.

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I'm a great believer in free-floated barrels, but tightly pillar-bedded action and the first couple inches of barrel. A rifle bedded like that usually holds zero very well and shoots tiny groups with the ammo brand/type/batch number that it loves. My old Rem 581 so-bedded with a new turned down and tapered benchrest quality barrel, very light trigger, and thumbhole sporter stock...shoots like the best target guns.

I want to extend my heartfelt thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread. The contributions are unfailingly memorable, with some (many actually) of the posts reminding me of Star Trek’s Mr Spock’s dilemma. As you may remember, Spock was the pointy eared Half- Human Half-Vulcan character notable for his utterly logical and totally unemotional personality. A defining characteristic of individuals born on planet Vulcan. However, in one of the early Star Trek episodes, Mr Spock was seized with a desperate desire to return to Vulcan to seek a mate, a primal instinct known as Blood Fever that caused normally logical and unemotional Vulcans to revert to savage behavior. During which time the Blood Fever crazed Spock fought a duel with and even sought to kill his friend Capt. Kirk, over a Vulcan maiden. Our Earthly comparison of Vulcan Blood Fever might well be known as Fouling Fever, and declared to be brought on by even casual mention of cleaning .22 RF barrels. Causing normally rational gun folk to revert to tribal myths, repeat and chant long-disproved hearsays and forsake any avenue to logic or reasonable discourse.. Thanks again for the entertainment, and thanks for the memories.

Today was a beautiful day, and I competed in a Smallbore Prone match, in conditions with very light winds. I thought about this thread as I experiemented with ammunition at 50 yards, and 100 yards.

Changing ammunition at 100 yard clearly resulted in an elevation change that I had to correct for. Going from Eley Edge at 100 yards, to SK STD plus at 50 meters, there could have been settling, but I decided that I am unable to tell given my hold and position. Edge is not coated with a greasey wax, bullet and case are coated with some dry, black substance. Could be Teflon, Eley won't tell.

Shooting prone has its consistency limitations. When I break position, move targets, come back, lay down and sling up, there is always a period in which I more or less droop. Blubber and fat roll around and an exact position match to match is not possible. Sometimes it is not possible between shots! Given that I settle in, I cannot tell if the barrel is settling in, within the couple of clicks that are always needed the start of new set of targets.