"You never clean a .22 rifle"

[.38 Special]

As for leading and each consecutive bullet sweeping away the previous lead/fouling/copper...hogwash.

The actual argument, I believe, is that good quality .22 in a decent gun does not generally lead, and that it is the wax deposits in the bore which remain essentially in balance as the gun is used. Further, the idea is that removing the wax in the bore can result in a loss of accuracy, which only returns once the gun has been fired enough to restore the stable (ie. waxy) bore condition.

 

[mcb]

What could possibly go wrong with a freshly cleaned, properly lubricated .22 rimfire rifle?

The theory is that the clean barrel will not shoot as good (as tight of groups) as one "seasoned" with the particular lubricant (wax and or oil) that is on the 22LR ammunition you are shooting. In theory a clean bore should return to a season bore in a modest number of rounds.

 

[.38 Special]

What could possibly go wrong with a freshly cleaned, properly lubricated .22 rimfire rifle?

Temporary loss of accuracy, is the most likely negative outcome. Not in all rifles, of course, and even then, not necessarily noticeable. And of course, if a fellow feels like cleaning his rifle for whatever reason, that's his prerogative. The argument, I think, is not that you shouldn't clean a .22 bore, but that it might not be necessary and may even be slightly counterproductive, and experimentation might be in order.

 

[.38 Special]

As an overall note, I don't understand why this ends up being an emotional topic. Without pointing out anyone in particular, getting upset with an anonymous internet user because he doesn't clean his bore the way you do seems odd to me.

 

[LiveLife]

As an overall note, I don't understand why this ends up being an emotional topic.

Some of us shower everyday. I used to when I was growing up because some maternal parent figure made me do it.

Then I grew up and started hiking, camping, dirt bike riding and fourwheeling ... And guess what? I couldn't shower everyday even if I wanted to.

Did anything bad happen because I didn't shower everyday? No.

BO? Well, I have been married 28 years and my wife and I have done A LOT of camping, biking, fourwheeling, etc. and managed to pop out 2 kids.

 

[.38 Special]

Some of us shower everyday. I used to when I was growing up because some maternal parent figure made me do it.

Then I grew up and started hiking, camping, dirt bike riding and fourwheeling ... And guess what? I couldn't shower everyday even if I wanted to.

Did anything bad happen because I didn't shower everyday? No.

BO? Well, I have been married 28 years and my wife and I have done A LOT of camping, biking, fourwheeling, etc. and managed to pop out 2 kids.

In giving it a bit more thought, I suspect that many of us had "A responsible man cleans his guns after every use" driven home by an authority figure like a father, drill instructor, etc., and that any suggestion that they might not have had the whole story is an affront to the authority and experience of those men. Of course, I'm often full of it, too.

 

[Howland937]

Firstly, I never said I "never" clean or maintain. It's a matter of maintenance intervals. I do not clean every time I shoot. I do not clean a bore unless it needs it and I do not clean as thoroughly as folks like yourself. Not because I'm lazy. Not because I don't care. Not because I don't take care of my stuff. Because it isn't necessary. Just as it isn't necessary to change my oil every time I drive to town and back. Nor every 3000miles. IMHO, what I do is akin to the 10,000mile, "when-my-vehicle-says-so" oil change.

I know when I'm finished shooting what it needs. This is foreign territory for you guys that clean all the time. I've been there and I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if it did not work.

Only problem with waiting until the car tells you the oil needs changed, GM says acceptable oil consumption is a quart of oil every 2000 miles or so....meaning your car that holds 4.5 quarts could be 5 quarts low in 10,000 miles.
It can be done, but understanding how your car or rifle behave under differing degrees of maintenance is pretty important. Once you know what approach works best you're all set.

 

[DM~]

Only problem with waiting until the car tells you the oil needs changed, GM says acceptable oil consumption is a quart of oil every 2000 miles or so....meaning your car that holds 4.5 quarts could be 5 quarts low in 10,000 miles.
It can be done, but understanding how your car or rifle behave under differing degrees of maintenance is pretty important. Once you know what approach works best you're all set.

I have a friend who bought a Chrysler minivan, it's been using a qt. of oil per thousand miles since new. Chrysler says it's just fine, and within spec..

My friend has been fighting with them since he bought it to no avail, and it looks like he's just going to give up and keep adding oil every thousand miles!

I'm NOT sure how any of this has anything to do with cleaning a 22 bbl. though...

DM

 

[.38 Special]

Only problem with waiting until the car tells you the oil needs changed, GM says acceptable oil consumption is a quart of oil every 2000 miles or so....meaning your car that holds 4.5 quarts could be 5 quarts low in 10,000 miles.
It can be done, but understanding how your car or rifle behave under differing degrees of maintenance is pretty important. Once you know what approach works best you're all set.

I am going to start changing the oil after every drive.

 

[Howland937]

I am going to start changing the oil after every drive.

Seems a bunch of them use oil at such a high rate, just filling it back up once a week is like a monthly oil change

My point is that not all cars require the same depth of maintaining at the same intervals. The oil (as well as fuel) you use can affect how often your car needs service....just like your .22 rifle. The conditions under which you use it, what you feed it, and what your expectations are will be the best factors for determining whether it needs cleaning/ maintenance or not.

 

[BWS]

22 rimfire ain't really my thing,even though we have some nice'ns;

But shooting lead IS. And I shoot the wheels off some pretty jacked up 22 loads in 223 and 22-250. Well into JB velocity and pressure. Like most things,the truth lies somewhere in the discussion. At lower velocity of the rimfires I can see where not cleaning "to the bone" (squeaky clean) has it's followership. But I'd be durn careful there if you're constantly changing ammo.

The waxes applied to rimfire bullets out of plain economics isn't much. Can't say for sure,but I doubt the manufacturer puts anything special in it? But if they do..... well you really are setting yourself up for a tough road on accuracy. Because,the ratio of this wax,laid over that wax muddies up your testing. Yes,test ammo to find what your rig likes. Just saying it's gonna be tough putting hard numbers on residual barrel wax if you can't pin down the shot count?

In centerfire cast rifle,you're gonna have lube purging at some point. The higher the intensity,the more dramatic.... and more frequent. Keeping velocity down extends the time. But how do you know when if you never clean it? And there's a whole lot of guys with cast rigs that can go hundreds and more shots before they get their rigs back to squeaky clean. But that came with experience,on that rig. Applying past knowledge is a good thing,learning when and where to "temper" that data base opens another door. Learning what your rig will do coming off the bttm(my term for squeaky clean) is one of the basics in my approach. Dosen't directly effect the frequency though,simply what.... or how long it takes to get the rig back in it's groove. Also knowing the number of rounds to where accuracy falls off,only one real good way to find out.

Takeaway is,with cast you're gonna have to check it in your rig. Be polite,..... not just to fellow shooters,but to your rig.

 

[243winxb]

He said a .22 barrel will get "seasoned" like a cast iron pan, and is more accurate the more you shoot.

The barrel will get "seasoned", but takes less then10 shots from a clean barrel. After this accuracy does not improve.

Cleaning should be done before firing different ammo. The different lubes on the bullets may not work well together. Just changing brands/lubes can make groups shoot to a different point of impact. Group can easily double in size.

But shooting 10 rounds of the new ammo seems to correct the point of impact & group size. Barrel get reconditioned with the new lube.

My testing was with 22LR @ 50 yards. Your 22 short would need a different barrel twist rate then what LR ammo uses, if like pistols?

Looks like a fun gun, enjoy.

 

[CraigC]

Why would the .22Short need a different twist rate?

 

[Elkins45]

I finally had to clean the action of my 10/22 last year because it started malfunctioning. I figure that’s not bad for a gun I bought in 1987. Still haven’t cleaned the bore.

I also don’t make my bed every morning, even though once upon a time a certain gentleman very emphatically told me how important this practice would be to my future happiness.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

Temporary loss of accuracy, is the most likely negative outcome. Not in all rifles, of course, and even then, not necessarily noticeable. And of course, if a fellow feels like cleaning his rifle for whatever reason, that's his prerogative. The argument, I think, is not that you shouldn't clean a .22 bore, but that it might not be necessary and may even be slightly counterproductive, and experimentation might be in order.

I've only seen that with folks who "over-clean" bores, especially .22 rimfire, whereby they remove any and/or, all, of any coating of bullet lube in the bore. The the accuracy can and will most often head south. I've never been as good at some in these forums to be able to decipher "emotion" in a post. That must take some sort of "special" training, eh?

Different twist rate for .22 Short rimfire? Well, Redman .22 caliber barrel lines are indeed available from Brownell's with 1:20 twist rate for .22 Short ammunition. I think those were most likely made on purpose.

 

[Jim Watson]

Why would the .22Short need a different twist rate?

Actually, the .22 Short came first and a 20 twist was adequate for a 29 grain bullet.
The .22 Long fires the same bullet but with a grain more (black) powder.
Stevens introduced the .22 Stevens Long, Rifle with the 40 grain bullet of the .22 Extra Long in the Long case so a faster twist was required, usually 16 inch. The French Gevarm open bolt automatic has a 17 twist because it was expected to be shot with .22 LR high velocity.

I assume the Extra Long had a 16 twist for its 40 grain bullet but have not seen any detailed discussion.

The legend was that Smith and Wesson built a few K22s very early on but put in too fast a twist. Accuracy was poor and they did not go into production. By the time Mr Beckheart got in his order for the Heavy Frame Target, the .22-32 on the I frame, they had it straightened out and the revolvers shot - and sold - well.

 

[243winxb]

Why would the .22Short need a different twist rate?

To stabilize the bullet. I tried to shoot shorts in a High Standard Victor. The 22 short conversion kit did better shooting the High Standard trophy. If i remember correctly, different twist rates. Rifles may be different?

 

[Ignition Override]

Let's ask this Ruger 10/22 "Swine and Dine" terminator.

 

[CraigC]

I was going to say, the .22Short is typically loaded with lighter bullets and could get away with a slower twist rate but there's certainly nothing wrong with the .22LR's standard 1-16" twist.

 

[Jim Watson]

Long ago, I read an article by a guy who set up a High Standard Short Shooter for his idea of a good ISU Rapid Fire gun. He used the HS aluminum Short slide but a LR barrel, wanting the faster twist for stability at low muzzle velocity.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

I was going to say, the .22Short is typically loaded with lighter bullets and could get away with a slower twist rate but there's certainly nothing wrong with the .22LR's standard 1-16" twist.

Another reason/cause that makes good sense to clean the bore and especially the chamber is for those rifles that allow the chambering and shooting of .22 Short ammunition along with .22 Long Rifle ammunition.
Quite often, mostly back in the day when gallery pump action rifles received a diet of .22 Short ammunition, a chamber carbon ring can and will build up to the point where .22 Long Rifle cartridges will either fail to chamber and/or extract easily. I can remember that condition when us boys visited grandpa's farm and were allowed to shoot pigeons off the sides of the corn cribs with his pump action .22. Can't remember what brand rifle that was, but here's some of the ammunition we were provided:

 

[CraigC]

I clean chambers all the time without touching the bore. Revolvers in particular.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

To stabilize the bullet. I tried to shoot shorts in a High Standard Victor. The 22 short conversion kit did better shooting the High Standard trophy. If i remember correctly, different twist rates. Rifles may be different?

During days gone past, Volquartsen offered a .22 Short conversion kit for "Bullseye Shooting" for some of the Ruger Mark Target pistols. IIRC, that involved a magazine and a lighter weight bolt. Those pistols were 1:16 barrel twist rate, so obviously the 29 grain lead bullets were still accurate enough for bullseye shooters using that kit and Short ammunition.

 

[DM~]

Shorts do just fine in my 22's with 1-16" twist, as do even less velocity rounds like CB's ect...

DM

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, nothing gets blown out of proportion more than twist rate. Unless we're talking about heavy bullets and the stupid-slow twist rate of some .44/.45 rifles, it's usually a non-issue.