Never Clean your Barrel?????

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You're suppose to clean barrels???!

I field strip and wipe down & oil guns after every session. Barrels only get a patch with a little solvent followed with a patch with a little oil. I think I only run brass brushes down the barrel after thousands of rounds. Guns do shoot a bit more accurate with a slightly dirty barrel.
 
I was watching a video on how to maintain a semi-auto rifle. The purported expert cleaned the bolt, bolt face the receiver area, but he didn't clean the barrel, and said he never cleaned ANY of his barrels, even the ones that shot corrosive ammo, and he claimed that his rifles just became more and more accurate the more they were shot without cleaning the barrel.
OP, I've never heard of NEVER cleaning a barrel nor the phenomenon of the ever increasing accuracy he claims.
You've got many lifetimes of experience in some replies and some just simply repeating what they were told at some point in their lives by others, guess you got some sorting out to do.
I'll clean the barrel on a new or new used gun but I can't think of many over the years that haven't shot better after being fouled but have never documented a specific gun to be able to say when I noticed accuracy to start to degrade.
I can say I have guns that have not had the barrels cleaned in years and hundreds of rounds, they stay in the safe and shot we'll when put up.
Oh and the girls say I smell just fine although my truck could use a bath.:rolleyes:
 
All my firearms get cleaned before I put them up. I have handled too many rusty firearms to ignore cleaning. Firstly I want to remove powder residue that attracts moisture and then causes rust. So for rock busting quality barrels, such as SKS, AK47, military rifles, I use powder solvent in the tube, wipe it out, and oil. Or RIG grease if I am putting the thing away for long term. Match rifles get the bore brush, powder solvent.

I started shooting Bullseye pistol this year. I asked experienced shooter about cleaning practices. During two day or three day Regionals, they don't have the time to field strip and clean so they will shoot 360 rounds or more through their M1911's without cleaning. However, these guys carry oil containers in their shooting kit and you will see them dribbling oil on the slide, slide rails, barrel hood, barrel end. Match M1911's are frequently lubricated during matches. Oil solvates and breaks up powder residue and bullet lube. Bullseye is so difficult, I am of the opinion that any inaccuracy due to a dirty barrel, is in the noise compared to sight alignment in trigger pull errors.

I know of small bore shooters who basically, never clean their barrels. They have told me they clean their barrel when their rifle "tells them to." Which means they are getting shots outside of their call. I clean because I am obsessive compulsive, but I have left the barrel alone during Regionals and can say, did not hurt or improve my score. I always shoot a couple of fouling shoots before going on paper. I am of the opinion that I have seen settling. I always clean my small bore barrels before putting the rifle in a safe, because of rust concerns. I have pushed patches through enough rusted rim fire barrels to know that they will pit through the wax residue left by the bullet lube.
 
some quotes from the link posted earlier

all the benchrest / IBS guys still clean a lot (10-15 rounds) though most of the quotes from the 600 and 1000 yard IBS winners are about how they clean a lot less, going 45-70 rounds without cleaning

but the high power guys go a good bit longer

Jerry Tierney said:
"For my 6.5-284 and .284 I clean every 100-150 rounds and normally do not brush. I'll go even longer with the .308. I've found that my X-count peaked with the Palma rifle at the fourth or fifth match (about 200-300 rounds)."

On a Palma barrel I'll go up to 500 rounds between cleaning, so that might mean 2000 rounds between brushing.

John Brewer said:
I'm not a fan of bronze brushes. I feel that nylon has to be easier on a bore than bronze. When doing a thorough bore-cleaning, I go after the carbon first, then the copper. However, I do sometimes use Iosso Bore Paste on a patch wrapped around a bronze brush. This is just used for cleaning hard fouling in the throat area. I usually do the Iosso thing after a match, typically three days of shooting and maybe 150-200 rounds.

David Tubb said:
"I shoot moly-coated bullets. I usually shoot 400-450 rounds with the 6XC and DTAC 115s. Then I clean the barrel thoroughly with Sweet's 7.62 and brass brush."

one of these days i'd like to go to the supershoot. doesn't seem much like a spectator sport but would be fun to socialize
 
Cleaning has cost people more accuracy by damaging barrels than it has ever gained anyone by removing deposits. Peak accuracy for most barrels is probably several hundred rounds in, and a measurable trail-off in accuracy compared to a clean+fouling shots barrel may well be thousands of rounds in. It's entirely possible with overbore calibers that a barrel will need to be retired from extreme accuracy use due to throat erosion before it first needs to be cleaned.

Neurotic cleaning (and "break in" voodoo) are a huge boon to barrel makers - the wear creates lots of demand for new barrels over time.

Back in the days of corrosive ammo, cleaning was a necessity. Depending on your environment, running a patch with a moisture displacer may still be needed every so often to prevent bore rust on chrome molly barrels. But most shooters have neither of those concerns and gain nothing by cleaning.
 
IMHO, the practices of match shooters is only applicable to match shooting. Same for the military.

And rimfires do shoot better with a dirty bore.
 
I can clean my ruger 77 down to bare metal and it will shoot 3 MOA then after a couple dozen shots it shrinks down to 1 MOA. But yeah clean shoots better.
 
The real issue is that we are at a crossroads in time; previously with black powder and corrosive primers cleaning was mandatory, but now, with improved cartridges and stainless, plated, or nitrided bores it's not only unnecessary it damages them when done improperly.

For those who note that barrel crowns are damaged, that tells a lot about the misinformation running around on cleaning. I was taught by professionals you NEVER insert a cleaning rod into the muzzle, EVER. It goes thru the chamber ONLY. That rule directly relates to the barrels the late McMillan saw screwed up - there are a lot of people who simply don't know how, and when, to clean a gun.

On the one hand the myth of cleaning it to operating room standards eventually sells another gun because the owner ruined, it, on the other never cleaning it does the same. There is a middle ground. Please don't look to the military as an example, because their tradition rests on the older generation of firearms, and First Line Leaders told to make them burn up time in the training day. And, in the military, dragging your weapon with you thru every step of your day in the field doing your job subjects it to a lot of debris. You need to clean it daily NOT because of powder residue, but because all the world's environment gets in the action.

It boils down to clean it if you are shooting primitive powders and ammo. If not, you forgo one reason. If you have an untreated carbon steel barrel, you still need to patch it oily to prevent long term rust. If the barrel is treated or stainless - you don't need to clean it after every shooting session, and in the case of target guns, it's not helpful.

It really depends on the gun, not what someone accepts as a mantra. Take for example Filthy 14, a carbine course instructors loaner AR15, After 60000 rounds it has been cleaned twice to the point a patch was run down the bore. Other than that, it was lubed and wiped down only. That rifle is service grade with a plated barrel and phosphate treated steel parts, and gets weekly attention.

An older C&R shooting corrosive ammo and left in storage for months at a time, no. Entirely wrong. It will corrode and become useless far sooner in round count than the loaner AR because of atmospheric humidity and neglect. It has to be cleaned and more often, usually after each use.

You don't institute a cleaning regimen by arbitrarily setting a blanket policy over all your guns. it will fail you if your inventory has diversity. You have to clean the gun depending on what it is and how you treat it.

No different than carpet - an expensive wool rug in a highly trafficked hotel lobby will need constant cleaning, and it will deteriorate rapidly. That same rug in a suite on the penthouse floor will only be cleaned because of cosmetic reasons, and certainly need far less of it, lasting years longer.

"I only clean my guns this way." is the real joke - because it doesn't take into considerations about what they are and how you use them. If you had a fleet of vehicles would you treat them all equally, servicing them with a one size fits all policy? I suspect the race car in the back of the Freightliner transporter isn't sharing the same oil, much less schedule of mileage.

In most fleets, they do it by oil analysis and it gets changed according to the strength left in the additive package to protect the motor. That varies widely - a HMMV sitting in a NG motor pool may not get it's oil changed for YEARS, literally. One in Iraq, something else entirely. One size fits most doesn't even cover it - clean the gun for what it is and how you use it, not what faith based system was handed down by past generations. It's not a tribal or self image prop - it's just common sense.

Uncommonly rare among gun owners in many cases.
 
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As a rule with my rifles, none shoot same POI with clean barrels. Maybe my bad luck? My t-3 has around 21 rounds down it since the last cleaning and I know I dont have time to check zero during hunting season. 21 rounds, 4 years. No issues, or adjustments needed. But I don't shoot corrosive ammo. All my other guns the same except my muzzle loader. That has to have a clean barrel because it shoots like crap otherwise.
 
If the bore had been meant to be clean it wouldn't shoot better fouled.
This is an amusing statement, I laughed and laughed. Thanks!

I've noticed that this topic brings out the best of people. From supposed hard data to jocularity, seems the two very distinct camps hold the majority. I think very few opinions will be swayed.
 
easy does it

I think you will find more common sense here than many places, and common sense tells you to clean at different times depending on gun type, projectiles, use, ammunition and your own experience with each gun.

OP started out by expressing someone's provocative theory, backlash understandably ensued, and some of us admit that training and a bit of OCD may be at work, but little harm if the proper techniques are used.

The takeaway for me: Clean periodically, using techniques that work for the pros. I think I could benefit from a bit of research and an update in proper cleaning procedures for the guns I shoot.

I never did subscribe to the arduous barrel break-in programs, but will clean a new barrel more often.
 
i often recommend tiborasaurus rex sniper 101 videos 37 and 38 to understand how what you're cleaning isn't actually the steel most people think it is.
 
I was taught by professionals you NEVER insert a cleaning rod into the muzzle, EVER. It goes thru the chamber ONLY.
Simple, if all you own and ever shoot is a bolt action rifle or AR.
 
Somebody wanna tell me how to clean my Garand from the breech?

Or a lever action? Or my front stuffer black powder guns? Or my revolvers?

Clearly there's no such thing as "never" in many facets of our lives.

The key is to protect the crown at all costs. And that's as simple as a crown protector cone placed on the cleaning rod and used correctly so that the cone makes contact and is held there as the patch/jag or brush bristles just disappear into the muzzle and that the jag or brush is what pulls the cone back when being extracted.

As for the fellow mentioned in the opening post? For anyone that lives and shoots in a VERY dry place such as New Mexico or many areas of Nevada or Texas "corrosive" ammo might not be all that corrosive. As noted early on the salt in the fouling by itself is not corrosive. It's when it draws in moisture from the air and turns into a wet salty sludge that bad things occur. But if the air is crazy dry then no sludge and no corrosion.

Here in the Pacific North"Wet" region where I live? You bet your bippy that black powder and corrosive ammo guns get cleaned the same or at worst the next day. And I need to be pretty darn exhausted to not clean them the SAME day.
 
I'll clean them when I feel like it. Typically that's on a rainy day when I'm bored or trying to hide from family. I don't shoot enough through any single firearm to require cleaning it on the schedule that they see, but again that is more a side effect of wanting something firearm related to do on a day I don't make it out of the house. To be quite honest, I've neve shot a single rifle enough between cleanings to see a significant drop in accuracy that would make me want to clean it. I'm sure cases exist and other people have a different definition of significant to adjust their cleaning needs sooner or later than mine.

I would clean based on need rather than a schedule. I wouldn't replace my tires every 3 months regardless of the miles they've seen. When you notice accuracy start to suffer, or if you have a specific need from a competition point of view, clean accordingly. Typically though, I'd side with less is better.
 
SHHHHHH!!!!!

I spend many long winter afternoons "cleaning" my guns. If my wife finds out they don't need it, I'll be vacuuming the floors instead.

And I, personally use Guiness Stout when I clean the guns -- I pour it into me and clean away.
 
I was taught by my grandfather (USN) and father (USA - Ordnance Officer) - a WWI vet and a WWII vet. Both taught me, "you shoot it, you clean it, and you clean it until the patch comes out white." I've been living that way for over 50 years of shooting.

Just last week though, a very well known and well thought of gunsmith told me to NOT clean .22 or .17 rimfire barrels. He said he virtually never cleans them. Another former professional gunsmith told me the same thing about .22 barrels. He was surprised when he heard that I clean them. I'm just a clean kind of guy I guess. I don't over-clean. I just clean. I like clean stuff.
 
some quotes from the link posted earlier

all the benchrest / IBS guys still clean a lot (10-15 rounds) though most of the quotes from the 600 and 1000 yard IBS winners are about how they clean a lot less, going 45-70 rounds without cleaning

but the high power guys go a good bit longer







one of these days i'd like to go to the supershoot. doesn't seem much like a spectator sport but would be fun to socialize
If you ever come in for the Super Shoot let me know. The annual bench rest super shoot is held at Kelbly's Range where I shoot on a regular basis. Plenty of vendors show up with stuff for sale. While I am not a bench rest type I enjoy the range and shooting there. Been shooting there since the early 90s. Super Shoot 2016 is May 26 through 28.

Ron
 
SHHHHHH!!!!!

I spend many long winter afternoons "cleaning" my guns. If my wife finds out they don't need it, I'll be vacuuming the floors instead.

And I, personally use Guiness Stout when I clean the guns -- I pour it into me and clean away.
Hahaha,

My second favorite part of shooting is coming home, laying out all the guns on the table, and cleaning away to a good John Wayne movie.
 
For deciding on whether to clean the bore or not, how do you determine if the specific ammo you're using is corrosive? Don't remember that info being stated on the box.
 
If you are buying new manufacture, modern, domestically manufactured ammunition it is non-corrosive.

Some military surplus ammunition is corrosive and it's possible, but unlikely, that some foreign manufacture ammunition could be corrosive.

If you are in doubt about some ammunition, you can find a variety of ways on the internet to test it to determine whether or not it is corrosive.
 
Its always been my understanding that needing to fowl your bore to get your groups to settle down is really just needing to burn off the residue left from cleaning.

I like to clean my barrels regularly and gently.


And yes, I think TP is also worthwhile, regularly and gently.
 
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