Going prone like in this old army training manual?

Yeah I was a teenager when I had this training as were the bulk of guys I was drafted with in 1967. In movies they use adult actors alot older that anyone I served with expect some NCO's and officers that were seldom off base. Although I was gunner for a Colonel On a Jeep for a local Convoy. He seemed like an old man to me. I was chosen as I was the only expert M-60 gunner in the Battalion. It was very unusual to have officers on convoys. They liked to ride in helicopters. Sometimes we had MP escorts in armored Jeeps and they had thier own gunners.

Looks like they changed it a little by the time I was in...

This directly from my 'Smart Book' issued to me 10OCT86 at Fort Leonard Wood... this version you fall to your knees, first, then drop into position using the butt of the rifle...





Yes, I still carry my Smart Book with me everywhere, in case I get caught in an inspection. Well... no, not really... it's in my top desk drawer, just in case...

taliv said:

i'm not really super invested in arguing about which way is fastest to get out of the way of bullets. but it seems to me the method described in the pic is demonstrably slower than the one I previously described. it assumes the rifle is already in your hands in the proper position (whereas it may be slung or in a low ready or other position when the bullets start flying towards you... but even assuming it's in your hands already as shown in the pic, it would take muscle to start your body moving forward (pivoting around your feet) and falling, and then when your knee hits, it's going to slow you down, and when your rifle butt hits, you're slowing down, etc. when you compare this to simply dropping straight down, letting gravity do it's thing immediately, and kicking your legs out behind you as you approach a squatted position, much like doing a burpee, I'd wager money the method described in the OP is not the fastest way to get out of the way. you're for sure going to get from standing to a push up position (pretty low) faster.

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Like d2wing said, this technique is used for when you are moving. I don't think we are taught this EXACT way, but it's the same concept.

When I was taught this the Drill Sergeants would set up a lane approximately 50-100 yards long in the woods. You and a "battle buddy" would start at one end and take turns bounding from one tree/position to another down the lane. At the end the DS had a M16 and would shoot blanks at you if you were up too long. At the end if the DS decided he shot you during some of your movements you owed a bunch of pushups.

I used this type of technique once in combat that I can remember. It was a couple weeks after we took Baghdad in 2003. My squad was on foot patrol one night. We were walking down a road when we got ambushed by 3 guys who had been recruited by the Fedayeen. They were across a field to our right, maybe 100-150 yards away. They had 2 Enfields and an Iraqi Army pistol that looks like a Beretta 92 (Tariq?). First 303 round missed my head by a couple inches and hits the wall directly to my left. I received multiple small cuts from the wall pieces exploding in my face. We immediately go into counter ambush by returning fire and charging into the field. There were piles of rubble and trash in the field that we bounded to and from. The Iraqis fired a second volley and we returned fire at the muzzle flashes. They ended up dropping their guns and retreating into the city. No casualties on either side butwe shot the crap out of a car and a corner market. The neighbors turned them in the next day.

I can't tell you if the technique I used was textbook or even done well, but when a couple dude in the dark are sniping at you with bolt action battle rifles, it felt like the right thing to do.

IIRC the OP displayed the steps to go to the prone tactical situations or at the range when I was in basic. Difference was at the range it was done slowly by the numbers.

This was in 1967 with a M14.

Did this a bit over a decade ago with an M203. The end result of the 203's slightly-worse forward grip was a very mild "|.|" shaped facial scar that is still barely visible.

C-grunt said:

it felt like the right thing to do.

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That was kind of my thought... your fight or flight brain would tell you to get down, darn the textbook.

The step by step pictures make it look dumber and less fluid than it is. It's more of a "briefly arrest your forward flop with buttstock and ground" movement.

ExtremeSquared said:

The step by step pictures make it look dumber and less fluid than it is. It's more of a "briefly arrest your forward flop with buttstock and ground" movement.

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As I recall, this basic move with slight modification of landing on both knees was what was taught in basic in the 50's. Any rate, most HP XTC rifle competitors use it very efficiently in standing to prone rapid fire XTC competition. Breaking your fall w/rifle butt, then pivoting on the rifle butt into shoulder w/hand adjacent to butt plate (much like paddling a canoe) carries body forward into proper prone shooting position very efficiently.

Regards,
hps

taliv said:

I never did that. I never saw anyone do that.
look at these videos that show how HP XTC competitors go standing to prone. my search didn't find a single video demonstrating breaking ones fall with the rifle butt

beginning of this video


skip to 21:50 seconds in this video


a few seconds into this video

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Guess we are both devulging our age, taliv.

Back in the day of wood and steel rifles (early 50's), we were taught to break the fall with butt of rifle, then with a canoe paddle-like motion to pull body forward and push buttstock firmly into cheek/shoulder pocket, all in one fluid motion. With strong hand placed firmly adjacent to the buttplate, there was no strain on rifle stock. One other thing that was different back then was the 300 RF command was, "On the line, with 2 or 5 rounds, Lock & Load........." so it was not necessary to pull the charging handle after assuming prone position, as is shown in the videos.

IDK, but can only assume that with the advent of the mouse guns, which came along much later, that such a maneuver might be a bit hard on the plastic stocks, thus the modified version shown in the videos?? The mouse guns were becoming pretty popular about the
time my competition days were winding down (late 90's) and I never paid much attention to how they assumed prone w/them.

The first video @ approximately 3:30 and second @ 21:45 or so show a very similar maneuver to what was used years ago w/exception that strong hand is used to break fall and then moved to butt of rifle for remainder of the maneuver.

Since there were no videos other than VCR's of the day and I have long since given away all my Army AMU manuals, it took me a while to locate this article which shows how us old codgers used to do it.




Oh, and yes, I did not see many coonskin caps on the line, but lots of competitors really did wear those Smokey Bear hats.

Regards,
hps