Anyone Besides Me Make BP?

Could you share some more info about your tumblaer mods? That sounds great!

mmb617 said:

I started out making powder as a way of insuring that I'd have it when all the supply shortages hit. A big bonus was that it's a lot cheaper to make it than to buy it, although the savings aspect can be a bit fuzzy when you get into it enough and spend a fair amount of money on equipment. Weather permitting I like to shoot my flintlocks 3-4 times a week so I go through a lot of powder. Even so it's going to take a long time to reach breakeven point on my investment, but I've got some real nice equipment.

The whole making powder project has now pretty much turned into a hobby of it's own. It's gone from being something I did to keep myself supplied to something I do because I enjoy the process and I keep finding ways to improve this or that. As one example, I had read that people were having problems with motor failures on the HF tumblers I use, so I wanted to see what I could do to remedy that. I modified the tumbler using a DC motor with speed control and better v-belt. There's a few other pieces I've tweaked to make them work better for the powder making, so it's expanded my enjoyment of the shooting hobby.

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I'd like you to elaborate on the process of modding the tumbler. Mine ain't burned up but it definitely could run better. I accidentally over loaded the heck out of it because I just dumped in lead balls without measuring or counting and it made it run like crap. Put on the replacement belt it came with as the old one had stretched then took the excess balls out and made sure the new set up doesn't exceed the weight limit. Would love to have it running a better motor to push more weight so I can make more at a time

Dirty Bob said:

Could you share some more info about your tumblaer mods? That sounds great!

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Appalachiannative said:

I'd like you to elaborate on the process of modding the tumbler. Mine ain't burned up but it definitely could run better. I accidentally over loaded the heck out of it because I just dumped in lead balls without measuring or counting and it made it run like crap. Put on the replacement belt it came with as the old one had stretched then took the excess balls out and made sure the new set up doesn't exceed the weight limit. Would love to have it running a better motor to push more weight so I can make more at a time

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Here's a few details on what I did with my tumbler, but I'll warn you in advance it's about $100 worth of parts which some would say makes no sense to invest in a tumbler that was $60 in the first place. It made sense to me because it not only improved the tumbler but also gave me a fun project to work on.

I removed the tumbler top cover over the stock motor and cut it and the frame rail to clear the new belt. I'm using a DC motor that runs at a tested 5400 rpm which is faster than I wanted so instead of being wired direct to the power supply it goes through a speed controller. I find that running the motor at 85% turns the drum at about 50 rpm, slightly faster than stock. The motor has a lot of torque and will turn with a good size load on it. The main problem then becomes keeping enough traction between the drive roller and the drum so the drum doesn't slip on the roller.

I found out that if the motor is turning so that the drum passes over the drive roller first it tends to slip but if the drum rotates so it passes over the idler shaft first it has much less tendency to slip. Since it's a DC motor simply switching the leads will reverse the direction. Once it overcomes the slippage at startup it will run for 8 hours without problem which is the length of time I run my tumbler on a batch. I may try slipping a piece of rubber tubing over the drive roller to increase the friction if it becomes too much of a problem. That would increase the diameter of the drive roller and speed up the rotation of the drum but I can control that be cutting back the motor speed.

I bought the motor and parts to mount it from ServoCity for $75, the power supply and speed controller on Amazon for $15 or so each and the belt from v-belts direct for $5. If anybody is actually interested I can get part numbers.

I built a simple box to house the power supply and speed controller. The speed controller comes with a digital display showing percentage of power and a knob to adjust it. The green button is an on/off toggle.

@mmb617: A little more info would be most welcome and appreciated! I'd like to have the info on your sources, so perhaps I could upgrade my ball mill, also. I doubt my work would look as great as yours does: well done!

Thanks,
Bob

Here's the parts I used to change my tumbler over to the DC motor. Once the parts are in hand the modification is pretty simple and I think the pics I posted show what needs to be done.

The power supply and speed controller were bought from Amazon. I got the jack adapter so I could send power to the speed controller without having to cut and splice the output cord from the power supply to the speed controller. The adapter plugs into the power supply output and has screw terminals to wire the speed controller to it. I only needed one of those adapters right now but they were sold in packs of 10 and at $5 for the pack I bought them as I may find other uses for them in the future.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y64QLBM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QLYO7XU?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015OCV5Y8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

The belt I used was from v belts direct.

https://vbeltsdirect.com/belt/gates-2l140/

The motor, brackets, pulley, leads and mounting screws were all from ServoCity. The easiest way to give those part numbers is probably to post my invoice. Note that the second item on that list is a bracket I did not use. I wasn't sure exactly how the motor would mount when I placed the order but it turned out that bracket wasn't needed. Also I inadvertently ordered two packs of screws, the first item on the list, but I only needed one pack as there are 25 screws in a pack. I also ordered two different size pulleys as I wasn't sure which one I'd need. I used the 8mm OD one so I didn't need the 16mm OD one which is next to last item on the invoice.

I forgot to order the nuts to go with those screws but my Lowes store had the M4x0.7mm nuts in stock in their specialty hardware drawers so I got them there.



Figuring out what parts I needed was the hard part of the job. The assembly was pretty easy. I've only run two batches with the new setup so far but no problems have been encountered while running the tumbler 8 hours continuously.

I guess I'm just cheap, my "tumbler" was a length of PVC pipe with a direct drive to an antique aeromotor fan. (water pump windmill) Then a certain unnamed idiot who shall remain my brother had is machine build gene kick in,built a higher tower, installed a hydraulic pump from an old tractor with a hydraulic motor from an ancient auger on the ground. He uses it to tumble parts and powder aluminum, he is kind enough to allow me to use it on occasion though.

.38 Special said:

I am interested in making high grade BP. Are you aware of any single source for that kind of information?

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Bug OW. She's been in the game for years. Talented, smart and sassy when ... well when she decides ya need it.

Officers'Wife said:

I have found the longer green powder is tumbled the stronger it gets.

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Hey OW! Howdy from the past. By chance is your brother's experiment with mill powder via a windmill still relevant?

SmeeAgain said:

Question for the experts...
If I understand the process, I'm going to need a cylinder and a piston to compress the mixture.
I just happen to have a metal lathe (not by coincidence either) so... with a 20 ton press, what would the ideal inside cylinder diameter be? Or... what is the desired PSI and I'll figure it out.
Next question... Anyone who has prior experience with machine tools is aware that it's just as easy to make one "thing" as it is several. So... if I make more than one, is there anyone here who desperately needs a set?
No... I'm NOT selling them! It's a "pay it forward" kinda thing. I help you and you help out the next guy when you can.
Of course I wouldn't object to being reimbursed for shipping from Arizona at some point.

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You only need that gear if you plan on pucking. You will also need for milling the stuff to the "f" you desire. I can give you the puck mold design I use.

noelf2 said:

He has a website called gunslingersgulch.com. It's not a very busy site, but he and a few others are usually chatting in the mornings. I don't go there much anymore though. Brushy used to have an annual rendezvous (rondee) before covid. He's in SW Missouri, near where I grew up.

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Brushippy is an excellent source. As a side note, he is well versed in the history of BP. Worth the time to chat him up.

Officers'Wife said:

Everybody has their own level of risk tolerance. Quite frankly that goes far beyond mine for a variety of reasons. But then you would probably call me a nervous nelly since I tend to wear a ground strap when handling raw powder.

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Oh no! You don't "still" believe sparks = heat? [boy-o-boy, am I gonna get it for that!] For those of you who are wondering, electrical sparks to NOT = heat. Bad grounds make it appear so.

If you make good BP, most likely screening is all you need. Corning is ya just gotta get all ya can. I make 10K/batch cuz I shoot a lot of cannons. As to metal corning, ya ever notice that all those BP rifles had steel ram rods in steel barrels and well, I've never heard of anyone touching off a charge whilst loading.

gun'sRgood said:

Oh no! You don't "still" believe sparks = heat? [boy-o-boy, am I gonna get it for that!] For those of you who are wondering, electrical sparks to NOT = heat. Bad grounds make it appear so.

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ok, one more time, you are working with a mixture that responds to energy. Electricity, even static electricity, is energy. Just one chemical bond is enough to start a chain reaction. But… I remember what Will Rogers said about men and electric fences and move on.

gun'sRgood said:

Hey OW! Howdy from the past. By chance is your brother's experiment with mill powder via a windmill still relevant?

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Actually, the experiment was mine. The unnamed idiot (who shall remain my brother) took the idea and improved on it. I ball mill my charcoal with his machine since there is no climbing involved.

Officers'Wife said:

ok, one more time, you are working with a mixture that responds to energy. Electricity, even static electricity, is energy. Just one chemical bond is enough to start a chain reaction. But… I remember what Will Rogers said about men and electric fences and move on.

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Concrete just gets harder and harder! Some famous guy said that about the female scull. Though that does not belong here! Hey OW! It's been a while. Hope your doing well and live is treating you great! I miss the banter. Glad to see you here!

gun'sRgood said:

If you make good BP, most likely screening is all you need. Corning is ya just gotta get all ya can. I make 10K/batch cuz I shoot a lot of cannons. As to metal corning, ya ever notice that all those BP rifles had steel ram rods in steel barrels and well, I've never heard of anyone touching off a charge whilst loading.

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The main office of corning is to incorporate the niter into the charcoal & sulfur. Remember that black powder is just a mechanical mixture and since the niter is heavier it can "sink" to the bottom of the container making the mixing a moot point. Also while corned powder doesn't make a lot of difference in revolvers, the slower burn rate of the grains tend to give higher velocity in a longer barrel. Long ago my uncle would press 75 caliber pucks with with a hole in the center for the double rifle he made with the insanely long barrel(s). As the pucks burned in the center the surface area of the burn increased adding to the pressure. That way instead of a high pressure curve at the start there was a relatively level pressure curve all through the bullet's journey through the barrel. However you need to keep in mind that the neighbors were amazed the old man managed to die of natural causes.

Officers'Wife said:

The main office of corning is to incorporate the niter into the charcoal & sulfur. Remember that black powder is just a mechanical mixture and since the niter is heavier it can "sink" to the bottom of the container making the mixing a moot point. Also while corned powder doesn't make a lot of difference in revolvers, the slower burn rate of the grains tend to give higher velocity in a longer barrel. Long ago my uncle would press 75 caliber pucks with with a hole in the center for the double rifle he made with the insanely long barrel(s). As the pucks burned in the center the surface area of the burn increased adding to the pressure. That way instead of a high pressure curve at the start there was a relatively level pressure curve all through the bullet's journey through the barrel. However you need to keep in mind that the neighbors were amazed the old man managed to die of natural causes.

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See guys? Ya just gotta love this gal! She taught me .... um..... ahhh... well there were things! Pay attention, she knows what's she's talking about!