Have You Ever Sold A Gun To .....

While it is not a requirement here in Missouri, I do ask to see a valid CCW permit and/or have the buyer sign a Bill of Sales with a statement that they are not a prohibited person. And if they don't want to do either, then I will tell them to meet me at a FFL o that a background check can be done. If the potential buyer balks at doing any of the three things then I won't sell to them.

But then again, I haven't sold much over the years.

Illinois . you have to run the buyers foid # through the state police website to confirm it's valid , of course anything's possible but if the state police say they're good to go I'm going to trust that. There is a possibility that someone could use another person's foid card if they look similar but that's on them if they choose to fairly identify themselves to purchase firearms. This shouldn't be a topic, if someone is too dangerous to be trusted to buy a gun and the government knows it, why should they be free? The system is broken and dangerous people are regularly released worse then when they went in

WrongHanded said:

If every law abiding gun owner were as diligent as you when selling a firearm privately, I suspect there would be many fewer guns in the hands of criminals.

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This is very true. I do it because I don't want to sell to someone that is prohibited even if they lie and say they aren't a prohibited person. Even with legal medical marijuana, if I know you use and/or I can smell it then no sale either.

I might have at gun shows before I got my FFL.

WrongHanded said:

Okay, I know this will not be a popular thread. But please, if you choose to vote, have the High Road integrity of being honest with everyone.

I know many States do not require Universal Background Checks for private transfers. I also know that the States that do, didn't always require it (I live in one and remember the law being passed). I also know that UBCs can fail to be effective when prohibited individuals are not added to the NICS database. None of those points are relevant.

The question is very simple, and it's this:

Have you ever sold a gun through a private transfer, to a person who you were NOT 100% certain could legally possess a firearm?

I have to answer Yes, on this one. Because although I've sold to people I have known personally (without a BGC, back when it was legal to do so in my state), I have never had the complete life history of any friend, or co-worker. I am not omnipotent. And I know that people can lie, and that people can withhold information.

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You should reword the first question to say "Yes I committed a federal crime and I want to admit it on the internet."

Easy, I have never sold a gun.

Every time I've ever sold a firearm to anyone I complied with state and federal laws

WrongHanded said:

Is it a federal crime if the seller followed their State's requirements (lax as they may be)?

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If you knowingly transfer ownership of a firearm to a prohibited person, yes it's a federal crime, and it's a felony, regardless of what the state laws are.

WrongHanded said:

That's all well and good. I have done the same. But that was not an answer to the question asked. It was an answer to a different question.

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Well, beg your pardon then. I guess that it's quite possible there are still those who don't do private sales regularly in states where it's still legal and have little interest in tips for mitigating potential sales to prohibited persons or ensuring they're selling to someone whose background is checked regularly. Seems you just wanted to limit the scope of discussion in your thread. I'm out.

State of hawaii requires a permit to aquire any firearm. I have only ever sold or given guns to permit holders.

WrongHanded said:

But the idea that private sales without a formal BGC or proof of licensing don't contribute heavily to guns making it into the black market, and therefore into criminal hands, strikes me as ridiculous.

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I seem to remember reading that straw purchases are the number one way that criminals get firearms.

Every firearm I've ever sold included a background check on the buyer.

The point of this ridiculous exercise is???

Okay, I lied. I was out but can't let this go:

WrongHanded said:

But the idea that private sales without a formal BGC or proof of licensing don't contribute heavily to guns making it into the black market, and therefore into criminal hands, strikes me as ridiculous.

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So why then did you start your thread by asking a question, rather than making this your thesis statement? I appears that you are of the belief that private sales contribute heavily to guns making it into the black market and thenceforth into criminal hands.

Again, why did you simply not start your thread with the statement rather than putting everyone in the position of possibly incriminating themselves for federal firearms violations ("Hey, Detective, I sold the gun to my good buddy a few months ago, how was I supposed to know his license was revoked for DV?")

Your position also implies that the law-abiding gun-owners who sell firearms through private sales aren't exercising diligence to ensure the gun (that perhaps they bought in their name, filling out a 4473) doesn't end up in the wrong hands. I submit most gun owners have that concern, particularly if they were the original purchaser.

Secondly, as rust collector notes, you're assuming facts not in evidence. The tracing of crime guns notably reflects that most are either stolen or were bought through straw purchases - there is a body of research to confirm this..

So finally, in response, I would ask you then: Due to the tone of your posts, are you of the belief that all firearms transactions should be subject to national and state level background checks?

Nice try fed boy

To answer this question is almost entrapment.

FL-NC said:

I have never done anything illegal in my life.

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May I but touch the hem of your robe?

Not impossible for me. Before FTFs became illegal here in COmmierado, I did not feel it was my job to question a person's eligibility --that they should know this on their own. However, if things "looked" (don't ask me to define this) squirrely, I'd wriggle my way out of the sale... "My brother wanted it, so I had to give it to him. Sorry about that." A grey lie, I guess.

One of the problems with this question is that there's a whole raft of things which would make one a prohibited person besides a felony per se and a person might legitimately not realize that they were actually prohibited.

I wondered on a forum recently how many newbies might have discovered this when buying a gun. Hopefully, it might change their minds about the oppressive laws regarding firearms and their transfer and they become "woke" to that.

Terry, 230RN

PS. Something not considered so far:

Well, this may muddy the waters a little more, but the first gun I bought in Colorado, and several after that, all I had to do was show my driver's license to prove I was a Colorado resident.

Let's not forget that some of us have been around longer than 1968 and the further "improvements" on GCA 68. Thus, to some of us, buying and selling guns was not a big cotton-picking deal. Rather like buying a shovel. You pays yer money and you takes it home with you.

WrongHanded said:

If every law abiding gun owner were as diligent as you when selling a firearm privately, I suspect there would be many fewer guns in the hands of criminals.

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I suspect you are wrong, bad wrong. To be frank I do t think it’d make a noticeable difference at all.

I pretty much know every body in the villages and what they have done. I cant remember selling any guns, but I have given some as gifts.

Most all of my 'extra' guns went to the kids long ago, for free, divide by 7

Ive worn a few rifles out and so do/have alot of my kind. Guns can be found at our dump occasionally.