Who says it can't be done?

I don’t know. In nc there is nothing stopping one from doing so. Perhaps in other states laws would restrict it, but I do not know which states.

I don’t think I understand the premise of the question. Is it widely assumed to be impossible or locally impermissible?

You probably could, I don't know if you should. You would need to be a really good shot. If your shooting it out of a rifle it would probably be fine with the extra velocity. I guess it will come down to what is in your comfort zone for your rifle being big enough for the job.

Who says it can’t? I have seen people shoot at deer, even with good choices, and watch them run away.

I don’t know how many millions of people have carried the 38 spl with intended use for stopping ~ 200lb threats.

Why would anyone think it’s capable of doing that but not dispatching a deer that’s going to hang at ~100lbs gutted.

I would think they need to check their reasoning.

+1 on the could/should argument though. It’s certainly not the best choice.

Not legal in Indiana our regs require the case length to be 1.16” minimum. The .38 special is only 1.155".

Shooting it out of a rifle why not just use the 357 magnum cartridge.
I know 38spl + P will work, but there are better choices.
I know a guy out here in Washington that killed a medium size blackmail deer that was in his neighbors garden with a 22 caliber pellet gun. Hit it in the temple and dropped it like a ton of bricks
Is it advisable- No.
Will it kill a deer - Yes.

There is a thread about a guy killing a grizzly bear with a 9mm pistol.
Is that advisable - No.
Is it possible - Yes.

Some states have laws for deer hunting that allows ANY CENTERFIRE CARTRIDGE.

So legally someone could use the 5.7x28 in a rifle or any other small caliber cartridge.

My oldest son use to use handguns for deer hunting in New York.
He killed deer with his 10mm Kimber 1911,. Killed deer with his 44mag Ruger Blackhawk I gave him.
All good shots and they all went seventy-five yards and better with very little or no blood trail.

With a decent rifle and sameshot placement they either Dropped in their tracks or only went ten to fifteen yards with a decent blood trail.


About fifty years ago I friends grandfather shot a deer in his garden with a 22lr rifle and hit it in its head, dropped right in its tracks. So anything is possible.

People have choices, do what works for you.
Personally I use a 243 for deer out to around a hundred $ fifty yards.
This year I will be buying a 350 Legend rifle for deer hunting.
Just my choices and personal preference.
I actually do have a bunch of Ruger moldel 77 rifles. 357 magnum, 44 magnum, 22 Hornet, 25/06, and a couple of other calibers Plus another twenty-fice or so centerfire rifles. The last three years my personal choice has been my H&R 243 handi.
Drops them like snot. It's killed ten deer in the last three years. I have been getting one buck tag and four doe tags.

Shooting it out of a rifle why not just use the 357 magnum cartridge.

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Some of them are 38 spl only, like my 1866 for example. If that’s from a “buy another gun” perspective, I’d pick 35 Remington, 30-30 or from the other better choices.

savagelover said:

Why can't you shoot a deer with a 38 using plus p loads from a lever rifle.

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I give up....why can't you? Seems plausible.......but practical, not so much. I've hunted deer with both a .357 revolver and a .357 lever. Both using a 158gr bullet over the top of a full charge of W296/H110. Killed deer with both. Shots were under 35 yards tho and waited for a perfect shot. Deer still went a good 40 yards before they dropped.

savagelover said:

158 gr xtp will knock the snot out of a deer 60 yards or better

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Again, referencing my experience with full blown .357, I have to say, I think you're embellishing the terminal performance of the XTP from a .38 special, even if it is indeed +p. Out of my carbines with .357, I prefer the XTP-FP, because the standard XTPs are a tad fragile when pushed to carbine velocities. Mine were a titch over 1650fps. The XTP-FP gives better odds of a pass thru than the standard XTPs and I've found that having two holes for blood to leak out onto the ground is better than one, when using a .357. Again........I'm using legitimate .357 loads.

savagelover said:

Imr 4227 gets that lol bullet going close to 1400 fps.

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While I like me some IMR4227 in .44 mag carbines, in .357 I could not get more than a tad over 1500 fps outta my 20" model 92. I have doubts if one could get 1400 using a legitimate .38 special load. Problem is, it's hard to get enough of 4227 in a .38 case to get those velocities with a jacketed bullet....maybe with cast lead.

As everyone else here has said, it can be done, but should it be? Why not use .357 and give you and the deer a better chance for a good clean kill? I've read all these posts about how a hot loaded .357 carbine is equal to a 30-30. I can't say I agree. Maybe an anemic 30-30. I've been deer hunting with handguns and handgun caliber carbines exclusively for the last 2 decades. It takes patience and skill to be consistent, and this is with calibers that are considerably more than .38+p. If you are patient enough and skilled enough, you certainly could kill a deer with a .38+p. It's certainly not a scenario for everyone.

savagelover said:

tears a woodchuck into at 46 yards

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Now this I believe. Save it for the woodchucks.

Many a deer has been takin with a 22lr. It’s all about shot placement. Do I recommend hunting deer with a 22? NO!! But if it’s all you got and you could starve then do what you gotta do.

You would be hitting them with equivalent of a 357 pistol. That is known to work. I have never done it with a 357 pistol , but, know several people who have. All were good shots and none exceeded 50 yards. Worked well. A couple of them went close to 100 yards, but, a round ball from 45 caliber muzzleloader gives about the same results.

As far as a 357 being the same as a 30-30 it depends on how you look at it. The original 30-30 was a 160 gr bullet , that most of the time , never exceeded 2000 fps. From what I understand 1900 fps was probably even more realistic. Some modern loads are no better.I am pushing 158 gr Hornady XTP and Nosler bullets at 1850 over a chronograph from the wife’s Marlin. Velocity and energy pretty close at the muzzle. However the 357 is going to drop velocity faster. At 75 yards the 30-30 and 357 aren’t that far apart. At 100 yards there is no comparison with the advantage going to the 30-30. After 100 yards the trajectory of the 357 really goes in the crapper.

In conclusion they are about the same at the beginning, but, that changes pretty quickly. Not sure why I decided to ramble on about this. Guess I find it interesting even if no one else does.

Human threat stopping and deer hunting aint the same.

One mandates a quick/humane death.

A guy I know who is oblivious to rules and sensibilities, had his son shoot a doe deer with a .17 Remington, 25 grain bullet. He said that it was killed with one shot.

Patocazador said:

A guy I know who is oblivious to rules and sensibilities, had his son shoot a doe deer with a .17 Remington, 25 grain bullet. He said that it was killed with one shot.

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Was it PO Ackley who found that high velocity 17 caliber rounds killed Moreno sheep out on Santa Cruz Island much faster than traditional rounds? I dont think he gave a reason, it was purely based on empirical evidence, they just dropped much harder and faster to the little high velocity 17 caliber

Hookeye said:

Human threat stopping and deer hunting aint the same.

One mandates a quick/humane death.

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Agreed, game animals don't succumb to the whole "psychological stop" thing, like people often do.

buck460XVR said:

I give up....why can't you? Seems plausible.......but practical, not so much. I've hunted deer with both a .357 revolver and a .357 lever. Both using a 158gr bullet over the top of a full charge of W296/H110. Killed deer with both. Shots were under 35 yards tho and waited for a perfect shot. Deer still went a good 40 yards before they dropped.



Again, referencing my experience with full blown .357, I have to say, I think you're embellishing the terminal performance of the XTP from a .38 special, even if it is indeed +p. Out of my carbines with .357, I prefer the XTP-FP, because the standard XTPs are a tad fragile when pushed to carbine velocities. Mine were a titch over 1650fps. The XTP-FP gives better odds of a pass thru than the standard XTPs and I've found that having two holes for blood to leak out onto the ground is better than one, when using a .357. Again........I'm using legitimate .357 loads.



While I like me some IMR4227 in .44 mag carbines, in .357 I could not get more than a tad over 1500 fps outta my 20" model 92. I have doubts if one could get 1400 using a legitimate .38 special load. Problem is, it's hard to get enough of 4227 in a .38 case to get those velocities with a jacketed bullet....maybe with cast lead.


Now this I believe. Save it for the woodchucks.

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I agreed with the premise of your entire post. But wanted to expand on these. I had the same experience with imr4227. My testing showed Blue dot is the slowest powder that gives good velocity in 38.
It doesn't take much to kill a wood chuck. So a is a great choice.
I hope the OP doesn't feel he's being piled on. But just because you can doesn't mean you should. At the same time. I would not be scared of using an appropriate powder in 38 special at regular bow ranges. I would do it though.

Patocazador said:

A guy I know who is oblivious to rules and sensibilities, had his son shoot a doe deer with a .17 Remington, 25 grain bullet. He said that it was killed with one shot.

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That's the thing with anecdotal evidence - it doesn't really lead to good conclusions.

My dad didn't know any better and one day many years ago went to my ammo shelf and just grabbed a few .30-06 bullets to hunt with (he's an avid hunter but not at all a "gun guy"). He grabbed up some FMJ steel cased Barnaul ammo. Bang-flopped a doe right where she stood before I told him the ammo he was using wasn't legal. That one success doesn't make it a good idea to use FMJ bullets hunting.

Lets say we have fictional cartridge .231 Remington Underpowered. Lets say that with a single, well aimed and placed shot, 5% of the time the animal drops right where they stand. 20% run a short, trackable distance and can be recovered. 75% run well beyond the ability to retrieve them and later die.

If 100 people took a deer with that cartridge you'd still have around 5 of them claiming that it's perfectly fine for deer and it fell right where it stood. They're not liars - it's just that isolated personal experience is not a good substitute for DATA.

To the OP, if it's legal where you're at then do what you want. I don't think its a good idea, but that's your call.

Yes it would absolutely be different if it was to put food on the table and that was all you had but for the VAST majority of hunters these days when you factor in all the costs (licensing, clothing, gas, accessory doo-dads - many pay for processing), hunting isn't exactly a cheap source of meat, and very, very few of us are hunting with our one lonely rifle with no ability to acquire another.

mgmorden said:

Yes it would absolutely be different if it was to put food on the table and that was all you had but for the VAST majority of hunters these days when you factor in all the costs (licensing, clothing, gas, accessory doo-dads - many pay for processing), hunting isn't exactly a cheap source of meat, and very, very few of us are hunting with our one lonely rifle with no ability to acquire another.

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+ about 1000! I've been successfully pursuing big game (mule deer and elk mostly) for close to 60 years, and for me, hunting never has been a cheap source of meat. Furthermore, I've never had to get by with "one lonely rifle." Especially not now that my wife and I are both comfortably retired, our kids are off on their own and doing well, and neither of us have any other "expensive" hobbies or habits.
I will admit though that back in the day, I used the word "versatility" a time or two for an excuse to buy a different rifle. As I've written about on THR before, back in the '70s, I was using a 270 Win loaded with 130gr bullets for everything from rock chucks to coyotes, to prong horns, to mule deer and elk. But I wanted a different rifle, so I told myself I needed a more "versatile" 30-06 - because there's a larger selection of bullet weights for 30-06s. So, I got myself a 30-06 (which I still have) and I used 165gr bullets in it "for everything from rock chucks to coyotes, to prong horns, to mule deer and elk."
My beloved 308 Norma Mag is "versatile" enough for a big game rifle, I guess. It was my retirement gift to myself though - by the time I was 62, I'd finally matured enough to know I didn't need to tell myself I needed a more "versatile" rifle - or a more "versatile" handgun either for that matter.

Lots of deer were taken with the 32-20, so sure, a 38 special would work fine

BigBlue 94 said:

Lots of deer were taken with the 32-20, so sure, a 38 special would work fine

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Lot of deer have been taken with a .22 LR. Doesn't mean it works just fine. I have the .32 Special, Model 94 that my Grandpa traded in his Model 92 .32-20 on. I wished he would have kept the .32-20, but he told me many times before he died, that while it was a good varmint gun, it wasn't nuttin' like the .32 Special when it came to the deer he hunted in the big woods of Northern Wisconsin after WWI.

.308 Norma said:

Furthermore, I've never had to get by with "one lonely rifle.

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When I was young and poor I had to get by with one lonely rifle. However, it was a 7.7 so I got by pretty good. My second rifle was a Ruger .44 Carbine, to keep the 7.7 from being lonely, and for a while those two rifles made a lot of meat and a lot of dead coyotes. !!! Now I have plenty rifles, but I don't see myself loading up my .357 Rossi with .38 Special to go deer hunting. I can't do that, because it would be kind of a dumb thing to do. !

stringnut said:

In conclusion they are about the same at the beginning, but, that changes pretty quickly. Not sure why I decided to ramble on about this. Guess I find it interesting even if no one else does.

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I liked the ramble. So there's at least two of us.

buck460XVR said:

and I've found that having two holes for blood to leak out onto the ground is better than one, when using a .357. Again........I'm using legitimate .357 loads.

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I use a 200 grain cast bullet over WW296. I think two holes are better than one, not a "waste of energy".

i missed a couple days, anyone say it can’t be done yet?

jmorris said:

i missed a couple days, anyone say it can’t be done yet?

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No. Just that it shouldn't be done...