Using .30 Carbine bullets for .327, anyone try this before?

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TTv2

TTv2

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When I was looking for a lower cost jacketed bullet to shoot fuller power loads in .327 the only ones I could find that fit the bill were intended for .30 Carbine. I got a box of the 100gr Speer half jacketed "Plinker" bullets, which I guess they don't make anymore because they've been unavailable since COVID, and loaded a few. There was one issue and it was there was no neck tension, the bullet was pretty loose in the case and the only thing that held it in place was the heavy crimp.

I only shot one at a time as I felt recoil would rip the bullet out of the case, so it was tedious having to load only one each time, but the results were I hit the target every time at 15 yards.

It's been a few years since then and I've been waiting for more bullets to become available and it seems the industry finally got off their rear end and started making components for more than just 9mm. With time not being infinite and the future never guaranteed, I'm making this project a priority, plus with the primer shortages I'm only using what I have for projects that are most interesting to me, so this project is now my main reloading focus.

To overcome the tension issues I got a Lyman .30 Carbine mouth flare die and will soon be ordering an undersize .32 sizer die from Lee. I figure that only the section that the bullet seats in is what requires the undersizing, so I'll run the full case thru the normal sizer, then just a quarter of an inch down from the mouth with the undersize, after which I'll flare with the .30 Carbine die, seat the bullet, and then put as heavy a crimp on as I can. If this works out I'll try the Berry's .30 Carbine bullets, but IDK how thick the plating is on those and if they can take a heavy roll crimp.

Has anyone else tried something like this? I'd like to get feedback before I get going.

ETA: I want to make it clear that I am NOT asking for your opinion on how the accuracy of this load would likely be, I'm asking simply what your thoughts are on how I can get better tension on the smaller .30 Carbine bullet in a .327 case so that I don't have to shoot them one at a time to avoid the bullets jumping crimp.
 
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hawk shooter said:
.327 Federal Magnum calls for a .312 dia bullet. Those Plinkers are .308 dia. You are .004 undersize, hence the no neck tension on the case and most likely poor accurracy. Use the proper bullet dia for the task at hand.
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It's like people don't even read the first post.

I know all that, I've shot the .30 Carbine bullets in the .327, they shot well, good accuracy. Are you suggesting I'm a liar or do you just not believe me?

The reason I'm using the .30 Carbine bullets is they're cheap and are built for the high velocity of .327. The only reason I want more neck tension is so I can load a full cylinder and shoot more than 1 round at a time to prevent bullets jumping crimp.

The only solution I can think of increasing neck tension is using an undersize sizing die, which Lee makes, and a .30 Carbine flaring die as using a standard .32 flare die would blow the neck diameter out and leave me with no tension, if not crumple the case.
 
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Your not increasing neck tension, your putting normal tension on a smaller bullet. If you mean increasing neck tension from using .312" dies, then I understand what you suggesting.
I was going to suggest Acme bullets but AJ beat me to it. They are the only ones right now that I know of that are making hard cast bullets for 32 cal.
Xtreme used to sell all kinds of fun plated bullets for 32 cal including double end wadcutters but I have seen them since the plandemic was shoved down our throats.
 
I honestly have enough problems with leading in my Rugers that I don't need to purposely try to get more.
Edit to add:
IF your running .308 bullets down a barrel that is supposed to be .312" and getting away with no leading and still have accuracy, even if it is with jacketed bullets of some kind then you must have an undersized barrel on your revolver.
I think I remember that some revolver that came out at one time in .327FM had an undersized barrel that would shoot .308 cal bullets.
I can assure you they are an anomaly and not the normal.
 
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I would just buy a 30 carbine die set and set the sizing die to only size down the length you want it to. Flare with the flare die an seat/crimp as normal with your 327 seater.
Might not be as accurate as a 32 bullet but should work reasonably. People often use .308 bullets in .312 bores with success.
 
FROGO207 said:
I would just buy a 30 carbine die set and set the sizing die to only size down the length you want it to. Flare with the flare die an seat/crimp as normal with your 327 seater.
Might not be as accurate as a 32 bullet but should work reasonably. People often use .308 bullets in .312 bores with success.
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I thought about using a .30 Carbine sizer when I first came up with this idea, but I don't think it will work any better than the undersize die because the neck diameter of .30 Carbine is .336 and for .327 it's .337; Lee specifies that the undersize sizing dies are .003 smaller (which would be .334") meaning they would make the neck of the .327 smaller than even a .30 Carbine sizer would and also be carbide, meaning no need to lube. There's also an issue with the .30 Carbine being slightly tapered and having a case length that's .100" longer than .327, it could be that the .327 won't go deep enough into a .30 Carbine sizing die to get to where it needs to be to get the neck sized.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
I honestly have enough problems with leading in my Rugers that I don't need to purposely try to get more.
Edit to add:
IF your running .308 bullets down a barrel that is supposed to be .312" and getting away with no leading and still have accuracy, even if it is with jacketed bullets of some kind then you must have an undersized barrel on your revolver.
I think I remember that some revolver that came out at one time in .327FM had an undersized barrel that would shoot .308 cal bullets.
I can assure you they are an anomaly and not the normal.
Click to expand...
I don't understand how I'm going to get leading by using a jacketed bullet, but we started a new month and it's a weekend, so that might explain some things.

As with all .32 I own I slug the barrel because it's an unknown what the groove and land diameters are until they're proven. So far every .32 has a .312 groove and a .306 land, the bullet may not fill the grooves fully, but the lands do leave their mark on the bullet and, as I said, I have shot .30 Carbine bullets from .327 handloads before and the accuracy has been fine. Even if it the accuracy falls off at longer distances, for 15 yards it works great.

I just want more tension than what the .standard 327 sizing and flaring dies give me.

Further, I didn't ask about how accurate using .30 Carbine bullets would be, I asked how I could get better tension so they wouldn't jump crimp under recoil.
 
TTv2 said:
When I was looking for a lower cost jacketed bullet to shoot fuller power loads in .327 the only ones I could find that fit the bill were intended for .30 Carbine. I got a box of the 100gr Speer half jacketed "Plinker" bullets, which I guess they don't make anymore because they've been unavailable since COVID, and loaded a few. There was one issue and it was there was no neck tension, the bullet was pretty loose in the case and the only thing that held it in place was the heavy crimp.

I only shot one at a time as I felt recoil would rip the bullet out of the case, so it was tedious having to load only one each time, but the results were I hit the target every time at 15 yards.

It's been a few years since then and I've been waiting for more bullets to become available and it seems the industry finally got off their rear end and started making components for more than just 9mm. With time not being infinite and the future never guaranteed, I'm making this project a priority, plus with the primer shortages I'm only using what I have for projects that are most interesting to me, so this project is now my main reloading focus.

To overcome the tension issues I got a Lyman .30 Carbine mouth flare die and will soon be ordering an undersize .32 sizer die from Lee. I figure that only the section that the bullet seats in is what requires the undersizing, so I'll run the full case thru the normal sizer, then just a quarter of an inch down from the mouth with the undersize, after which I'll flare with the .30 Carbine die, seat the bullet, and then put as heavy a crimp on as I can. If this works out I'll try the Berry's .30 Carbine bullets, but IDK how thick the plating is on those and if they can take a heavy roll crimp.

Has anyone else tried something like this? I'd like to get feedback before I get going.
Click to expand...
Have you tried referencing some of the .32H&R NRA Hunter Class and IHMSA Field Pistol data for the T/C Contender? Use of .30Carbine bullets was pretty common. Sierra and Lyman’s both published T/C .308” tables for that cartridge.

0114D96A-9E02-423F-BF16-68719AAE1269.jpeg
 
TTv2 said:
It's like people don't even read the first post.

I know all that, I've shot the .30 Carbine bullets in the .327, they shot well, good accuracy. Are you suggesting I'm a liar or do you just not believe me?

The reason I'm using the .30 Carbine bullets is they're cheap and are built for the high velocity of .327. The only reason I want more neck tension is so I can load a full cylinder and shoot more than 1 round at a time to prevent bullets jumping crimp.

The only solution I can think of increasing neck tension is using an undersize sizing die, which Lee makes, and a .30 Carbine flaring die as using a standard .32 flare die would blow the neck diameter out and leave me with no tension, if not crumple the case.
Click to expand...
You don't need the carbine flaring die. An undersize die might help. I'm not sure how much is sizes the case down.
As far as the "Cowboy velocity" bullets. They say that. But I've run Cowboy 38 special bullets in 357 mag without issue.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Have you tried referencing some of the .32H&R NRA Hunter Class and IHMSA Field Pistol data for the T/C Contender? Use of .30Carbine bullets was pretty common. Sierra and Lyman’s both published T/C .308” tables for that cartridge.

View attachment 1106457
Click to expand...
No, I didn't know any of this was out there. Thank you, this was informative.

I did try to skip the flaring/expanding die when I first tried this, but I couldn't get the bullet started square in the case and it crumpled the case when I tried to force it. Tried to do a minimal flare/expansion and again, the same thing happened.

I do have the Lyman M die for .30, got it a few weeks ago, so I guess I could try that. I was thinking the undersize sizer was going to ensure better tension, but that's not been ordered yet.
 
Bfh_auto said:
You don't need the carbine flaring die. An undersize die might help. I'm not sure how much is sizes the case down.
As far as the "Cowboy velocity" bullets. They say that. But I've run Cowboy 38 special bullets in 357 mag without issue.
Click to expand...
I somewhat agree, I've done it, but the reason I want to go jacketed is because if this works my plan was to also use the .30 Carbine jacketed bullets in my Henry 20" Big Boy, which would up the velocity to about 2000 fps and I'm not willing to run cowboy action bullets that fast.

Actually, that's another reason why I wanted the undersize sizing die to add more tension on the bullets as if I put them in the Henry tubular magazine, I don't want the force of the spring pushing bullets deeper into the cases.
 
TTv2 said:
No, I didn't know any of this was out there. Thank you, this was informative.

I did try to skip the flaring/expanding die when I first tried this, but I couldn't get the bullet started square in the case and it crumpled the case when I tried to force it. Tried to do a minimal flare/expansion and again, the same thing happened.

I do have the Lyman M die for .30, got it a few weeks ago, so I guess I could try that. I was thinking the undersize sizer was going to ensure better tension, but that's not been ordered yet.
Click to expand...
What you are wanting to do has been done before with the .327’s parent cartridges - in both the Ruger Single Six and the T/C Contender - and the solution has typically been to custom make a set of expanders and seating dies. You will probably need a custom seater to hold the bullet straight and prevent canting during seating.
 
TTv2 said:
I somewhat agree, I've done it, but the reason I want to go jacketed is because if this works my plan was to also use the .30 Carbine jacketed bullets in my Henry 20" Big Boy, which would up the velocity to about 2000 fps and I'm not willing to run cowboy action bullets that fast.

Actually, that's another reason why I wanted the undersize sizing die to add more tension on the bullets as if I put them in the Henry tubular magazine, I don't want the force of the spring pushing bullets deeper into the cases.
Click to expand...
I understand wanting to run plated bullets. I run soft bullets at 1800-2000 fps in 357 and 7.62x39 without leading.
I've run coated ones in the mid 2000s.
Plated is easier. Get the smaller sizing die. Use the rest of your set and be happy.
@AJC1 , @tightgroup tiger , and I were just saying plated isn't the only game in town for your needs.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
What you are wanting to do has been done before with the .327’s parent cartridges - in both the Ruger Single Six and the T/C Contender - and the solution has typically been to custom make a set of expanders and seating dies. You will probably need a custom seater to hold the bullet straight and prevent canting during seating.
Click to expand...
Now seating isn't something I thought of because the last time I did this I was able to push the bullets into the case using only my thumb and then I seated them all to the same depth in the press, but you're right. I may need to get a .30 Carbine seating stem from Lee and it looks like I'll be getting that free of charge for some reason. That's fine, I wanted some other seating stems for other calibers so I could file them down flat for flat nosed bullets.

I'm thinking since I'm only using the undersize die for the neck of the case, then the body of it should keep things straight when seating. That said, I will go ahead and buy a .30 Carbine stem while I'm at it. If that doesn't work, I'll turn a custom stem out at work on the lathe.

See, this is why I make these topics. You guys catch things I overlook.:)
 
TTv2 said:
Now seating isn't something I thought of because the last time I did this I was able to push the bullets into the case using only my thumb and then I seated them all to the same depth in the press, but you're right. I may need to get a .30 Carbine seating stem from Lee and it looks like I'll be getting that free of charge for some reason. That's fine, I wanted some other seating stems for other calibers so I could file them down flat for flat nosed bullets.

I'm thinking since I'm only using the undersize die for the neck of the case, then the body of it should keep things straight when seating. That said, I will go ahead and buy a .30 Carbine stem while I'm at it. If that doesn't work, I'll turn a custom stem out at work on the lathe.

See, this is why I make these topics. You guys catch things I overlook.:)
Click to expand...
That sounds like a plan that might work. I remember some of the Field shooters using Rugers with undersized throats so they could use the .30Carbine bullets. It seems Ruger was putting out .32H&R revolvers with .309” barrels for some reason. Mine is .310”. I heard of but never saw Marlins in .32H&R. If I’d seen one I’d have bought it but I guess I just never lucked into one. Good luck.
 
For lead bullets, and cheap try these, I have used several of their Tokarev bullets out of both a regular TT and a CZ + resized 115 gr .30 carbine out of a specialty built T/C Encore barrel. They handle high velocity, Brinell of 21.
I was stoking them close to 2100 ft/s out of the Encore with no evidence of leading.
https://www.kingshooters.com/better...rbine-115-grain-round-nose-sized-310-30148359

These might be even better!
https://www.kingshooters.com/better...rain-round-nose-flat-point-sized-313-30147697
Always wanted a Henry in .327, to go with my 2 Rugers, but missed out in 2019. Now the price's are astronomical! I was going to use them for my experiments.
 
TTv2 said:
I thought about using a .30 Carbine sizer when I first came up with this idea, but I don't think it will work any better than the undersize die because the neck diameter of .30 Carbine is .336 and for .327 it's .337; Lee specifies that the undersize sizing dies are .003 smaller (which would be .334") meaning they would make the neck of the .327 smaller than even a .30 Carbine sizer would and also be carbide, meaning no need to lube. There's also an issue with the .30 Carbine being slightly tapered and having a case length that's .100" longer than .327, it could be that the .327 won't go deep enough into a .30 Carbine sizing die to get to where it needs to be to get the neck sized.
Click to expand...
I understand your thinking on neck sizing but if the 30 carbine sizing die provides enough neck tension for a standard 30 cal bullet you should be able to shrink the neck down for good tension as long as you insert it at least one calibers length of full sizing. If you already have that die I would try it at least.
 
FROGO207 said:
I understand your thinking on neck sizing but if the 30 carbine sizing die provides enough neck tension for a standard 30 cal bullet you should be able to shrink the neck down for good tension as long as you insert it at least one calibers length of full sizing. If you already have that die I would try it at least.
Click to expand...
I don't and dont have an interest in puchasing one, not unless the undersize die doesnt work. I figured it was worth getting the .30 Carbine expansion die as I need some expansion to get the bullet started in the mouth and not crumple the case, but the sizer is a last resort type of thing before I start looking into custom dies.
 
You’re over thinking it!

I use a single set of Lee Carbide.32 ACP, S&W Short, Long, .32 H&R dies to load the forgoing, to include.327Mag and now .30SC.

The key is that MANY .32acp have bores running .308” and .309”. The carbide die sizes sufficient for even .308” bullets to be sufficiently snug and prevent the typical jacketed bullet from collapsing into the case. No worries loading a .307-.308” 30Carbine bullet.

I did have to polish the expander plug as it was “grabbing” the necks of Starline.32H&R and .327fed and puckering the necks, crimping under ruining the case neck. Turning the plug with a drill against some increasingly fine sand paper resolved this.

I’d try loading a few before spending $$$ for extra dies...
MidSouthShootersSupply and Grafs have Hornady 85 and 100gr .312” XTP’s in stock...
RMR might spot you a few .30Carbine bullets to try.
I’m using them to great satisfaction in my .30Carbines.... they mike .3075” iirc.
 
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