Zero distance for .45 Colt carbine?

Most short range guns in general, like ML's but also "brush guns", or the .44 mag, I like to sight them for 100, and learn the hold-under for 50 yards. That is my method for hunting or hiking carbines, I'm not sure how well it would work for targets such as/as small as clay birds. But, I find I can hold-under more accurately than I can hold over. Perhaps a 75 yard zero would be close to ideal, if there is an ideal. ??? Just guessing here.

halfmoonclip said:

Have been posting about tang-sighted 92 Winchesters in .45 Colt, and I've been fooling with dialing in my new gun.
I've run into a couple problems; less than perfect range conditions for a good zero (sun angle, ambient light, target size, tired eyes), as well as the very small gold bead front sight.
This last, having a hard time picking up that sight against a target, so a larger, ivory bead front sight is on order.
Now, how about a useful sighting distance....the load is a 355 RNFP, traveling at 850'sec in a carbine. I'd like a practical zero, able to hit targets like clangers and perching clay birds, at distances from perhaps 35yds to 85. Realize the bullet describes a parabola as it runs down range.
What would be a good distance?
I've zeroed similar guns/loads in the past, and been satisfied with the results. Maybe I'm being waaaay too fussy with this one.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Moon

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Personally, I find a blackened Patridge type front sight the best for all around use. Lighter colored front sights are fine for dark backgrounds but wash out against light colored targets. I have a Rossi that has a gold bead front sight that wasn't worth a flip, especially in sunlight. So I squared the bead off with a file then painted it black. Problem solved.

As to the zero range, using the BC for a Lyman 454424 (.210) if you set that load to be dead-on at 50 yds., it's only a little over 4" low at 75 yds. and 12" low at 100. If you sight it dead-on at 75 yds., the bullet will strike between 2.5" and 3" high at 25 and 50 yds. and be a smiidge over 6" low at 100.

35W

For hot 45 Colt loads, a100 yard zero is fine. With the 850 fps loads you're shooting, I would zero at 50. That's what I've always done with my 45 carbines when shooting CAS.

halfmoonclip said:

...at distances from perhaps 35yds to 85....

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Zero at 75 yards

General rule is decide, find, calculate or otherwise find the vertical distance of the expected target. In the service for belligerents it was about 18 inches. For a deer, about 10 inches, for a plastic bottle you decide, for a coyote, probably less than a deer.

One that's determined, set the sight to the BOTTOM of the target area. Then, determine the farthest distance that same hold will impact the top of the target area. That distance will be the apex of the bullet's trajectory, the bullet impact will begin to 'drop'. From there determine the distance to where the bottom hold will fall to the point of aim.
In that way, one point of aim will suffice for a hit for that distance. No adjusting the hold, just worry about windage.

An accurate trajectory table may help in this determination. Accurate information will save the trial and error the above implies.

I said no adjusting the hold. Now I'll contradict that.
At the far distance the impact 'returns' to point of aim, adjust the hold to the TOP of the target area. Then any shot fired will 'drop' into the target area for another so far as determined by the shooter as reasonable to attempt and trial an error - or where the tables predict the range.

So one only has two aiming points in general. The bottom of the target area and the top of the target area. Of course, windage depends on cross winds and one is on their own.

This sounds complicated, but is actually simple once the basic concept is grasped.

I have my 45 colt and 44 mag rifles sighted in at 50. I have scopes on the with hold over and under reticles on them.

The OP’s shooting a 355-grain bullet running just 850 fps at small targets between 35 and 85 yards with open sights. A 100 yard zero makes no sense, the trajectory is far too high at the ranges he cares about. A 50 yard zero has too much drop at 85 yards. I agree with 35W, a 75 yard zero is about perfect, with the bullet never more than 2.7” from his poa. There is absolutely no need to make things too complicated with theory and mulltiple measurements - KISS. Using the Hornady ballistic calculator:

25 yds….50 yds….75 yds….100 yds
..3.6………5.6……..4.4……….0
..2.1………2.7……..0…………-5.8
..0.8………0………..-3.9……..-11.1





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So easy... a caveman. . . .

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I typically zero pistol caliber carbines at 50 yards.

I do fifty but know 100 up to 200. Knowing at 200 it’s horseshoe style.

I only know 200 because the range I go to has a steel plate at that distance. You shoot, cycle the action, then hear the thump.

Bullets only drop after leaving the bbl.
I’m in the 50 yard clan

OP have you considered a lighter bullet at a higher velocity? For example a 255 gr. SWC running 1050 fps, which would be easy is your carbine, would flatten your trajectory a bit.

35W

It doesn't matter . . . . . as long as you know your dope at closer and further ranges.

+1 to a lighter bullet, depending on what your target is.

clay birds, lighter

polar bears, angry charging moose, stick with the 355

Heavier bullets require a faster rifling twist also.

halfmoonclip said:

Actually, that is about the load I used in another ('94 Winchester AE Trapper) to take a nice doe some years back; there's still 3/4 box of those in the locker.
But the .45 Colts are for entertainment, and there is everything from a S&W M25 to a Schofield replica, and the load is common to all.
Some of you fellers run really heavy boolits...
The .45 Colt is such a great old punkin roller.
Moon

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I use two loads in my 45 Colt revolvers - A 255 gr. cast RN or SWC at around 850 fps for plinking and practice and a 288 gr. cast SWC at a smidge under 1000 fps for hunting. Keeps things simple and I can just glance at a cartridge and know how it's loaded.

35W

Yep, I only load black powder in my .45-70 loads, as I have two "Trapdoors" and one Marlin 1895. The Marlin will shoot nuclear power smokeless loads of course, (I went through that phase when I first got it. Yes, even a JSP 400 grain .458 bullet will come apart on a deer if you drive it fast enough!) but I'd not want any to get in the 1873's. The good news is, the Marlin groups in an inch at 100 with my "Rifle Load", (have a carbine and a rifle) and as that load takes 80 grains of 3fg Swiss, I'm pretty sure it would kill "anything"...so I don't need no stinking smokeless loads for it. !!!!!

Wow, I didn't know that a 850fps .45 Colt load had such a pronounced trajectory. ! All things considered, and considering that, I'd zero that thing at 85, and like the Hawg just get good at learning the hold-under. I still think hold-under is easier to use than hold-over. ?

I think, but nobody quote me, that the carbine load was 55 grains with the 400 or 405 grain bullet. Black powder can kick, but I've never quite understood the carbine-load, as I shoot the .45-70-405 grain load in my carbine, and don't find the recoil bad at all. In my trapdoor rifle infantry rifle I shoot the 80 grain load, same as the Marlin. My Marlin is only a tad over 7#'s, and the 80 grain load is not "objectionable" to me. ?? So...yeah recoil is "in the eye of the beholder" or something like that. !!! Or in my case, perhaps "no brain no pain"!!!!!