Teaching kids and squib rounds

You're going to be right there with them, right? So if it happens you can take the opportunity to illustrate another rule of safe shooting: If anything unusual happens, stop, keep the muzzle down range, don't open the action for at least a full 60 Mississippi minute (explain why) , and investigate absolutely thoroughly including a bore inspection until the issue is resolved and solved. Oh, and call the range officer. Discard the bad round properly.

This should have been gone over in advance, but if it actually happens, it will provide an actual bad round drill.

I do not recommend providing snuck-in squib loads based on what is known as "Terry's General Principles." You can interrupt their shooting with a squib drill at any time without using bad or dummy rounds.

I need not mention you should have a bore light of some kind in your kit for the bore inspection.

Terry, 230RN

Instruct the young shooter of the importance of carrying a range rod-not a cleaning rod, especially one that comes in sections, aluminum, too flimsy, IMHO. Brass or steel. Show them how to remove a squib. I made a rod for my 22 handguns-and I have gotten a lot more squibs lately. A 10" brass rod in a 5" wooden handle-a dowel-painted yellow. In addition to emphasizing that the firearms must be pointed in a safe direct-i.e. downrange, emphasize that you do not smack the handle with the palm of your hand. Use a mallet of hammer if you must.

Shoot single shot (just because the magazine CAN hold 10 rounds, you are not obligated to fill it up) until the kids can verify by the little bump of recoil that the round fired normally. Use reactive targets so they can verify that the bullet left the barrel. Tell them if something didn’t feel normal or look normal to call you for help.

I have had dud .22 ammo but never a .22 squib. Even so, shooting slowly and deliberately avoids a number of problems and bad habits.

A better term would be "pop and no kick".

Everyone can remember this, you hear the "pop" of the primer/little to no powder but don't get the usual "kick".

Even a new shooter can relate that something different happened when they pulled the trigger.

As 230RN said, teach them what to do after they experience this.

Also . speaking as a non-parent and someone whose first shooting experience was at age 13 in Boy Scout Camp with Army surplus rifles that felt like they weighed a ton, I firmly believe in starting young/new shooters out with bolt actions and single shots only even in a repeater. Perhaps let them fire a full magazine
as "dessert".

230RN said:

You're going to be right there with them, right? So if it happens you can take the opportunity to illustrate another rule of safe shooting: If anything unusual happens, stop, keep the muzzle down range, don't open the action for at least a full 60 Mississippi minute (explain why) , and investigate absolutely thoroughly including a bore inspection until the issue is resolved and solved. Oh, and call the range officer. Discard the bad round properly.

This should have been gone over in advance, but if it actually happens, it will provide an actual bad round drill.

I do not recommend providing snuck-in squib loads based on what is known as "Terry's General Principles." You can interrupt their shooting with a squib drill at any time without using bad or dummy rounds.

I need not mention you should have a bore light of some kind in your kit for the bore inspection.

Terry, 230RN

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Perfectly summarized.

Don't over think it. It'll ruin yours and their experience if you do.

I have not experienced squibs with 22s so much as Failure to Extract. My Range Rods are just the thing for that.

^ Check for dirt under your extractor. They also make firing pin dent reamers for .22 chambers, but I don't know how well those work. Also, shooting shorts or caps gums up the forward end of the chamber making extraction of full length .22s "less easy." Plain crappy ammo could be at fault as well.

Or "E. All of the above."

Terry, 230RN

Mark39 said:

I know I'm probably being overprotective, when I learned as a kid the subject of squibs was never even mentioned.

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Back when I was a kid, we never used hearing protection, so a squib was easy to detect(altho I never experienced one). I did once buy a old Remington #4 takedown rolling block rifle that had a bullet stuck in the barrel though, but the previous owner asked to buy it back after I removed the squib. It was a good friend and it was his grandpa's so, I couldn't really say no.......altho I really wanted to.

Be honest with you my shooting journey started at the age of 4 shooting a mossberg 500 12 gauge. It set me on my back lol it may not be the right way but it is what it is.

I personally would not worry about squib rounds as you will be there.

Besides of your not mag dumping you will hear the shot.

Just be there and have fun.

I experienced my first squib at 63. Been shooting .22LR since I was 8. That day, that box of Federal Auto Match, 325 rounds, shot 60 and had 3 squibs. All 3 stuck in barrel of 5 1/2" Single Six.
After 3 happenings, letter to Federal and sent them back.

So happy it wasn't grandkids. They have been instructed, but when I had I my first, the surprise caught me. Took a few seconds to acknowledge the problem. I wasn't going to shoot, but the shock was there.

Don't ruin their fun, but make them aware and be alert. Squibs do happen.

Education is the key to success in all things in life, including firearms safety and marksmanship. Include discussions of all possible "mishaps", even if you've never experienced them. And make sure that you get the terminology and descriptions correct. A squib is an underpowered load that fires but may or may not result in the projectile exiting the barrel. A squib has already gone off, so no need to wait (30 seconds, 60 seconds, your choice). Had one on Wed., first time ever where the bullet didn't exit (on a 4" Taurus revolver no less) and knew it instantly (gotta love electronic muffs). Solved with a short cleaning rod (.22's are soft lead and pretty easy to push back). A misfire is a round that goes "click" instead of "bang" when the trigger is pulled. In .22 LR, especially the cheap stuff, it's not uncommon. Most of the time it will just extract after the required waiting time, but if it doesn't then usually gentle tapping with the range/cleaning rod will suffice.

You'll be with them (at least you SHOULD be) for quite some time in the beginning stages of the process. And don't have more than one shooter at a time initially. Trust me, you'll be glad you did't. And with a 10/22, as J-Bar said, just because you CAN load 10 rounds doesn't mean you HAVE to. Lots of other good advice above, too.

If you get a squib in a 10/22 the action will not cycle - there will not be another live round chambered to be fired into an obstructed barrel if that is what you are most worried about. If you want to prove this to yourself, chamber a .22 short CB round and fire it. The CB bullet will make it out of the barrel but the spent case will not be extracted (unless some serious modifications have been made to the rifle)

I gave my stepson a 10/22 for his tenth birthday, spent a lot of time with him teaching him how the firearm operates and range safety before he ever chambered a live round. Once we progressed to live fire, he shot single round only and verified his shot on target with a spotting scope before proceeding to load another round. He quickly became familiar with operating the rifle and fail-to-fire / fail-to-eject stoppages and how to deal with them. He learned safely and now 26 years later he is getting ready to teach his oldest child on that same 10/22.

Edit: If you do get a box of CB Short .22 for "Scientific Research", it would also make sense to pick up a Heritage Rough Rider. Shooting a .22 single action revolver with loads so quiet you don't even need hearing protection is a hoot, and if you shoot at steel the rounds make cute little fully expanded and flattened 'flowers' that you can use to make ornamental broaches with which to impress your woman, friends and co-workers.

Well the amount of rapid fire plinking that goes on with 10/22 and pistols without second thought, if there was significant risk of squibs hurting folks, it would be in the news all the time. Every shooter would need to be carefully firing and listening to each shot and semi-autos would probably have ceased to exist 100 years ago, being too dangerous to use them as they were designed.

I only check for squibs if I am loading very low power rounds or handloads where I am trying to go as low powered as possible, like subsonics in lever actions. Also very old or dubious ammo where you may be unsure of the primer/powder condition. Regular factory ammo, I dont give two hoots.

No harm in teaching them a specific action drill, but going off the generations( lets talk hundreds of millions of shooters) who shoot 22 without caring, I think its more likely to be killed in a car on the way to the range.

I'm no expert, but if it cycles the action it is not a squib - so, it is the duds you get once in a while that you just need to eject it and make sure there is a bullet still in the case. Eventually I figure one of those will be a squib, but never seen it, but - since in the back of my mind I'm anticipating eventually it will happen, I drop the mag before ejecting the round, put it back in the magazine, and every dud I ever had fired on the 2nd strike. I was shooting a Ruger Standard a few months ago, and I forget what happened it did it twice, and I wasn't sure if it misfired or was a dud, or that firearm usually has no issues and I wasn't really paying attention so, I racked it and I have to catch myself there becuase I'm not sure it wasn't a squib and have to pull the mag, eject the round I just chambered, and since we're out in the woods shooting gongs the easiest way to make sure I don't have a barrel obstruction is to just open the action, and find a long narrow stick/twig and poke it down the barrel to be visible out the chamber. Not sure if that is the technical way to check that, but I figure that is being overly cautious anyway and to me it is the quickest way to check/clear it, reset myself and get back to it.

For kids, I would just instruct them if it doesn't go bang, to check with the range officer - being you. Then check it for them, and show them what you are doing and why.

Doug444 said:

...

And make sure that you get the terminology and descriptions correct. A squib is an underpowered load that fires but may or may not result in the projectile exiting the barrel. A squib has already gone off, so no need to wait (30 seconds, 60 seconds, your choice). Had one on Wed., first time ever where the bullet didn't exit (on a 4" Taurus revolver no less) and knew it instantly (gotta love electronic muffs). Solved with a short cleaning rod (.22's are soft lead and pretty easy to push back). A misfire is a round that goes "click" instead of "bang" when the trigger is pulled. In .22 LR, especially the cheap stuff, it's not uncommon. Most of the time it will just extract after the required waiting time, but if it doesn't then usually gentle tapping with the range/cleaning rod will suffice.
...

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Thanks for pointing out the difference between a squib and a misfire. I kind of smudged the two together as "anything unusual."

You are 100% correct.

As I've said before, the two worst sounds in the world are a click when you expect a bang and a bang when you expect a click.

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In another post....

...and since we're out in the woods shooting gongs the easiest way to make sure I don't have a barrel obstruction is to just open the action, and find a long narrow stick/twig and poke it down the barrel to be visible out the chamber. Not sure if that is the technical way to check that...

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I'm not sure I'd vote for that. Failing a bore light, just sticking your finger or a white piece of paper in near the chamber to reflect some daylight up the bore is a better field expedient in my opinion.

Terry, 230RN
(Edited by strikeout and substitution.)

Jes' ramblin'...

Don't discount light firing pin strikes. Dirt in the firing pin channel can be the culprit here. For a center fire handgun, putting a pencil down the barrel and dry-firing upward to observe how high the pencil goes has been used, I forgot what the "usual" height was for a 1911, but you can compare it to a known "good" gun.and can give you a good idea. You really don't have to use a NIST-calibrated 2H Capital brand pencil for this rough estimate.

For a rimfire, I guess you can compare firing pin dents with the dents from a "good" gun with the same ammo.

Also, dirt on the chamber face can cushion firing pin blows.

Ramble off. Nap time.

Terry, 230RN

.

I believe you are overthinking just a tad. You have never encountered a squib in your own shooting. It is likely your child won't encounter one either because factory ammo has gotten significantly better. And in a 10/22, the barrel is thick enough that even an impacted squib would not hurt your child when shooting. Just pay attention to the pops and bullet impacts down range and you should be fine.

The question generated discussion of related issues.

Mark39 said:

...Already good with a ...air rifle.

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Good job. That was going to be my suggestion. You will find the fundamentals of marksmanship that can be taught with a good-quality air rifle are really all that is necessary to make a person a good shot with a 22 caliber rimfire rifle. The air rifle has the huge advantages of being able to be shot far more places than a firearm and not presenting any threat to anyone's hearing. With a good backstop like a rubber ballistic curtain, air rifles can be shot in the backyard, the basement, the high-school gymnasium and dozens of other practical locations, whereas firearms are pretty much limited to firearm ranges or vast rural properties with many thousands of feet to the nearest residence. Some people are fortunate to have ample amounts of the latter conveniently located. Anyone shooting at the former will have to be prepared for the immense noise of not only their own but everyone else's guns. Indoor ranges are the worst and add to the threat of hearing loss, foul, toxic air. In any event, be prepared with the best hearing protection.

The chief virtue of rimfire firearms is that kids perceive that they are "real" firearms. While air rifles are hardly just toy bb guns, the status of 22's often relegates air rifles to a status similar to that of toys in the minds of some. The only practical virtues of the 22 versus an air rifle are a great deal more range and more mass in the bullet for hunting the critters for which the cartridge is suitable. Compared to centerfire rounds, the rimfire's only virtue is the low cost of ammunition. I really can't think of any other. Do enjoy the 22 though, and consider that at 13, she's old enough to get a hunting license in any state.