DM~
Member
I'd be willing to bet that, that bullet didn't blow up and a good-sized chunk of it was in that deer...
DM
DM
.35 Rem Cor-Lokt bullet failure (in my opinion)
- Thread starter wombat13
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- cor-lokt; .35 rem
courtgreene
Member
I shot a doe this year, heart shot. She didn’t bleed at all until about five yards before she fell. The next day I shot a buck, lung shot. He didn’t bleed at all until about ten yards before he fell. Both of these ran much further than yours. No snow. Neither was too hard to find but sometimes they are so I’m not lecturing you. When I looked at the wound channels both bullets performed well. Sometimes they bleed a lot. Sometimes they don’t.
I agree that it shouldn’t have blown up, and I like others would love to see pics of any bullet or fragments.
The deer I described were taken with an 8mm ttsx which passed through, and a .308” partition which also passed through. Still not much blood and none for a long way.
None of this should be confused with my defending Remington, a company whose products have failed me too often. So I get your indignation.
I agree that it shouldn’t have blown up, and I like others would love to see pics of any bullet or fragments.
The deer I described were taken with an 8mm ttsx which passed through, and a .308” partition which also passed through. Still not much blood and none for a long way.
None of this should be confused with my defending Remington, a company whose products have failed me too often. So I get your indignation.
Totally understand what you're saying, but the only reason we can debate whether or not the bullet failed is that we recovered the deer. Had we not found the deer we, and everyone on THR would assume a bad hit. We can debate whether or not it was a failure, but it certainly was far short of what I expect from a bullet these days. I can spend 20 cents for a bullet that may perform or 70 cents for a bullet I know will perform. What should I do?
Maybe it was, but I don't really care. Here's what I know: Entrance wound in the chest cavity; 3" shard of rib found during field dressing; both front legs and shoulders intact; diaphragm not punctured (chest cavity full of blood but none in the abdomen); no exit wound. So did the bullet blow up or did it just stop somewhere in the chest? Who cares? Same result.
Ugly Sauce
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Truth. My .62 shoots right through everything, but often little or no blood trail. Bear I shot left a blood trail for a short while, then none. A buck I shot I found dead about 30 yards away, no blood trail, but I found hair so I knew I hit him. A big doe I shot facing me, reared up on her hind legs, jumped straight up, kicked her hind legs in the air, and dropped straight back down dead. Didn't leave any kind of trail.
Well, that’s the best when they drop in their tracks. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to happen very often. Although there are two weapons I’ve used that drop them DRT more often than not: Savage 212 shooting saboted .50 cal bullets dropped 3/4 DRT and Savage .25-06 has dropped 2/2 DRT. Probably just the result of small sample size, but I prefer to believe otherwise. I’ve shot 3x as many deer with my .300WM as those two combined and I don’t think I’ve had more than a few DRT.
jmorris
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It’s pretty amazing what animals can take sometimes. I quit using Core-Lokt culling a buck years ago using Remingtons 150gn 308 load. Sent the first one 180 yards into the shoulder and he didn’t move at all. Sent another and he twitched his hind leg, as if to shake a fly away and remained standing. Upon impact of the 3rd round he took off, running in a circle because he lost use of that leg and collapsed pretty much where he took off from.
I had used them with success for many years before that though and could probably still kill things with them but I too appreciate “dropped in tracks” kills.
I had used them with success for many years before that though and could probably still kill things with them but I too appreciate “dropped in tracks” kills.
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Hugger-4641
Member
I've had more DRT with my 30-30 than any other gun. I've also been hunting with it for almost 40yrs.
I quit using Core Loct many years ago for the opposite reason. I killed a few deer that did have exit holes almost same size as the entrance.
I think the bullet design is good, when it works it works. I think their QC is the problem.
I quit using Core Loct many years ago for the opposite reason. I killed a few deer that did have exit holes almost same size as the entrance.
I think the bullet design is good, when it works it works. I think their QC is the problem.
Probably had it's leg forward. My wife did that on one. Looked like a high shoulder shot. But the leg was intact. She said she waited until the leg was forward and shot where it should be.
On the OP. I wouldn't expect a 200 corelock to come apart. But I don't care as long as it does the deer quickly.
If you friend could reload. The 180 Speer hotcore is a solid bullet. That leaves an exit would. Even on quartering shots.
Patocazador
Member
When I started hunting in the 1960s, Remington guns and other products were the "gold standard." It's the crap standard now.
Many other companies have gone the same route. Bought by speculators who used cheaper foreign labor and shoddier materials to increase profit margins. Frigidaire, Uniroyal, and even Amana have done the same thing. It seems a "name brand" doesn't mean anything now.
DM~
Member
I don't think it's fair to call the OP's bullet/story, a Remington ammo failure.
He "thinks" the bullet blew up but has no proof of that, he "thinks" the deer would have left a blood trail if the bullet had gone on through, and that's just not true. I even got the impression he figured the deer would have dropped sooner had the bullet gone on through, and that's not always true either.
His bullet/story is a sample of one...
AND he hasn't answered my question in my above post, did the bullet in my deer fail?? Anyone else want to tackle that question.
DM
He "thinks" the bullet blew up but has no proof of that, he "thinks" the deer would have left a blood trail if the bullet had gone on through, and that's just not true. I even got the impression he figured the deer would have dropped sooner had the bullet gone on through, and that's not always true either.
His bullet/story is a sample of one...
AND he hasn't answered my question in my above post, did the bullet in my deer fail?? Anyone else want to tackle that question.
DM
DM~
Member
Without something to analyze everything is conjecture. No bullet, or fragments, no way to determine what happened
If the heart , or the big arteries connected to it, were damaged there may not have been enough blood flow to push blood out. Have seen several with heart damage the left little , or no, blood trail.
Even punching the lungs will not leave blood for 20 or 30 yards.
If the heart , or the big arteries connected to it, were damaged there may not have been enough blood flow to push blood out. Have seen several with heart damage the left little , or no, blood trail.
Even punching the lungs will not leave blood for 20 or 30 yards.
Why so testy? You seem emotionally invested in Remington Cor-Lokts. You can hunt with whatever bullet you want. Spend your money how you wish, but I will not spend a dime on a 200 gr bullet that fails to exit a deer on a broadside chest shot.
I know the following: bullet entered chest; bullet did not exit chest; bullet did not hit shoulders or legs; bullet did hit rib on entrance.
Did the bullet blow up? I can’t prove it, but given the above what is a plausible alternative theory?
I don’t know that it would have left a blood trail with an exit wound, but I do know that more holes increases the PROBABILITY of a blood trail. If you disagree, please explain how a second hole would make it less likely to leave a blood trail.
Finally, I don’t think and never said I think it would have dropped faster if the bullet exited. My point is you can’t count on a deer dropping DRT, so I want an exit wound and blood trail.
DM~
Member
I guess I should ask, why are you so emotionally invested in hating a brand or bullet that you absolutely don't know what happened to? You weren't even willing to find out what happened, just saying "who cares"!
Before I go on line and talk trash like you have been, I'd AT LEAST want to know for sure what happened, I would have found that bullet and even took picts. to show what it did do. Had you done that, then you could have had an intelligent discussion about that bullet and what happened.
IF you are going to talk trash, AT LEAST know what you are talking about, instead of making wild guess'.
You just want everyone to agree with you, and then attack them if they don't. lol
BTW, I don't use Cor-Loks.
DM
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
I never buy Remington bullets but how could they make a 200 grain lead and copper bullet that explodes on a relatively soft target when traveling at only 1600-1700fps? I don't think it is possible. Add another 1000 fps and I'll believe it.
Ugly Sauce
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I know how to settle this! Get you your friend and his rifle, and the ammo used. Get you a bunch of milk jugs filled with water. Get/make some 12" sections of a 2X8". Set up a couple jugs, sammich a board between the first two jugs, and a bunch of other jugs. All lined up on a table or long board. Take some shots at the same range as the deer was and inspect those bullets. See if they blow up. That should give a better idea of how those specific bullets, from that specific lot of ammo are performing. For a "control" you could also fire some premium bullets under the same conditions/test and see how they compare. Am I a smart feller or what? Well maybe a f**t smeller. However, easy test to perform, easy material to obtain, and should either prove your point, or ease your mind about them thar Core-Locks. Of course you can sammich that board anywhere in the line up that makes the most sense to you.
Usually, as far as I know, when a bullet blows up, there is much pieces of lead and jacket material, and a huge wound channel. When I used to overload my 7.7 Jap, that was the case if I shot something at close range.
????????
Usually, as far as I know, when a bullet blows up, there is much pieces of lead and jacket material, and a huge wound channel. When I used to overload my 7.7 Jap, that was the case if I shot something at close range.
????????
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I'm not the one using heated language. I'm not hating anything. When I say I don't care whether it blew up or not it's because MY preference is an exit wound. You may not care about an exit wound, but I do. This bullet was fired at a broadside deer. It did not exit the chest cavity. There was no exit wound and the diaphragm was not punctured so it did not enter the abdominal cavity. I agree, the mass of that bullet was inside the deer. Whether it "blew up" or as you believe "a good-sized chunk of it was in the deer", either way it did not exit, which I consider a failure.
Let's look at how Remington markets Cor-Lokt. This is from their website: "Core-Lokt® is the original controlled expansion bullet. Its time-proven performance has made it hunting's first choice for over 75 years. The tapered copper jacket is locked to a solid lead core delivering massive 2X expansion, weight retention and consistent on-game results."
So, should I expect a 200 gr, .35 cal "controlled expansion bullet" with a copper jacket that "is locked to a solid lead core" to exit on a broadside chest shot in which the bullet does not encounter any bone heavier than a rib? If so, then this bullet failed, i.e., it did not perform as expected given it's design and construction. If not, then what exactly do "controlled expansion" and "copper jacket is locked to a solid lead core" actually mean?
You seem to think your example presents some difficulty for me. No your bullet did not fail. You say it busted ribs on the way in and out, i.e., it exited the deer and it caused significant internal damage on its way through.
Here is something I wrote before you posted your example: "I understand that which is why I consider it a failure when a 200 gr big game bullet explodes because it hit a rib. A nice exit wound from a mushroomed bullet significantly increases the chance that there will be a blood trail."
This is not very complicated. I prefer a bullet that will exit a deer when I shoot it broadside through the chest because the exit will increase the probability of a blood trail. This "controlled expansion" bullet failed to exit the deer. Therefore it fails to perform as I would expect.
DM~
Member
You are missing at least two things, when a bullet goes into or through an animal, many times the hide slips over the hole(s) and there's little to NO blood loss. In my case, the bullet did exit and there was NO external blood loss for over 50 yards...
What controlled expansion means, is exactly that, controlled expansion, it doesn't mean that ANY bullet that expands and holds together will exit, not by a long shot! In fact, many times an expanded bullet that DOES hold together has less penetration, and that's why I like NP's. The nose of an NP blows off creating a lot of damage and the back 2/3's of the bullet that's left, has little expansion and goes on through.
Many bonded bullets expand to a large diameter, and that slows the bullet down because of much increased resistance and almost always means less penetration, maybe it will exit and maybe it won't. Yet, folks pay a lot more to get a bonded bullet.
My problem with your story is, you don't know what happened, you didn't even try to find out what happened, all you know is, the bullet didn't exit, yet you just went into trashing Remington and their bullets. Like I already said, had you been a better detective It would have helped your case a BUNCH, and from the above post I'm reading here, I'm not the only one to tell you that, so you don't need to single me out.
NOW, by your "original" criteria, my bullet DID go on through, but my deer ran further than your friends, and it also didn't leave a blood trail to follow, so I would think it didn't do any better than your friend's bullet, so it must have failed too.
DM
Peakbagger46
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“Bullets almost never fail”. Wrong. I’ve personally witnessed Barnes, Corelocks, and Hornady SST fail. The SST was most impressive, a 180g slug out of a 30-06 hit a mule deer RIB, did a 190 degree turn, and exited out the backbone.
Ugly Sauce
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Do .600" pure lead round balls ever fail? Not yet.
I think the issue is what does it mean to fail? I’m using the term as failing to perform as designed/expected. I expect a 200 gr bullet marketed as a “controlled expansion”, big game bullet to exit a white tail doe on a broadside chest shot in which no bone heavier than a rib is hit. I expect that if we asked a Remington engineer, he would agree that the bullet should exit under such conditions.
Others seem to define fail as failing to kill the deer or failing to cause significant internal damage. I agree with them to a point because if the bullet had exited the deer but failed to cause significant damage or failed to kill the deer I would also consider that a failure.
From your information, you are not satisfied with the ammo. Something shouldn't have happened, but did. It should have been a thru and thru and it wasn't. It sounds like old ammo that may not have been stored in the best of conditions..... I've deer hunted for over 50 years and have seen some awfully weird problems with ammo. BUT....
I know of a nice Christmas present. Right now Cabela's has .35 Remington in stock. Hornady Revolution 200 grn. flex tip is $42/box and Winchester 200 grn. $52. Enjoy the venison and plan for a great hunt next year! Merry Christmas!
I know of a nice Christmas present. Right now Cabela's has .35 Remington in stock. Hornady Revolution 200 grn. flex tip is $42/box and Winchester 200 grn. $52. Enjoy the venison and plan for a great hunt next year! Merry Christmas!
