Crushing the shoulder, help please….

MWC1974 said:

Redding Competition Dies (30-06) ... been set up for quite some time

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How about disassembling the die for a cleaning?

If the problem goes away, great. If problem continues, return back to us.

One possible cause is if you have the seating die screwed in too far, it will deform the shoulder when seating. For no crimp on a regular seating die, you have to leave a space about the thickness of a Nickel off of the shell holder.

If you set the seating die to crimp, back off the crimp die some.

If you're using the Redding Competition seating die with the mic on it, read the instructions for that particular die and reset the die.

MWC1974 said:

didn’t crush the shoulder on my dummy round or the first few completed rounds. Just odd.

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Maybe some build up got knocked loose, if so will be revealed by the cleaning.

I also would have said back the die out a turn or so, but since it made a few (or one) without a problem, I have to go with cleaning the die.

I had this problem recently setting a die up, I had it screwed in too far. My shoulder/neck was crushed but the OAL was correct.

I think a good cleaning will fix your issue.

chris

MWC1974 said:

Well, here is an odd one and a first for me. I’m using Redding Competition Dies (30-06) and have had zero issues until today. They have been set up for quite some time and stored properly.

Loading some rounds today, I made one dummy round to be sure of the seating depth. Checked good. Went to loading and about 5 or 6 rounds in, the shoulders were getting slightly deformed. By the 7th round, the shoulder is nearly crushed. Ironically, the OAL is still correct. The brass was full length sized and trimmed, then wet tumbled and dried.

What would be causing this? I’ll try and post a picture in a minute.

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Too much case lube. Blocks the vent, basically creates hydraulic pressure that dimples shoulder. Use less lube, and if you're using something like one shot, or a alcohol/lanolin based lube, make sure you let it dry before starting.

i had the same problem it turned out to be that the bullet seating rod was turned in too far for that particular bullet ogive

Since you said the brass was trimmed, make sure you put a bevel on the inside of the case mouth to ease the bullet starting into the case. If you are loading a flat base bullet you may be crushing the shoulder with the base of the bullet before it starts in the case.

Also, make sure the bullets are .308! You may have a .310 bullet which wouldn’t work well and may not chamber. It would probably be unsafe to shoot also. Cast bullets are commonly oversized, but not jacketed.

Looking at your pics, I think I see a crimp right on the cannelure. Maybe the crimp setting is not timed with the COAL setting.

Me, I'd tear down the seating die and start over.

Now that I'm on my computer and can take a good look at the pics, I think NMexJim nailed it. Your crimping before the bullet is completely seated, which is causing the shoulder to buckle. This is not uncommon if you change projectile type or brass type after the dies are set up. If you intend to crimp (not needed for the most part), you need to back the die body out so that it's not applying crimp, then adjust the seating depth. Once you have that set, back out the seating stem so that it's not hitting the bullet, and with your correctly seated bullet in the shell holder or plate, ram up, tighten the die body down until it is applying just barely any crimp and lock it down. Once that is set, now go back and with the correctly crimped and seated round fully into the die, ram all the way up, tighten the seating stem down until it's just touching the bullet, and lock it down. Run one through and make sure everything lines up and it seats to where you want. You can avoid these issues by seating and crimping in different steps. As a general rule, if you change anything, you generally need to go back and make adjustments to your dies.

MWC1974 said:

Problem solved. Dies were clean, but slightly out of adjustment by 1/4 turn too much. Not sure how that happened despite the locking ring. Maybe it came loose over time?

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I know it's an extra step but seating the bullet in one step and crimping the bullet in another , separate , step will eliminate the buckled case problem . I bought another die to seat with and use the seat/crimp die as a crimp only . My Dad swore seating and crimping in two steps made better ammo ... maybe , but it will not hurt anything .
Gary

MWC1974 said:

That’s what I did. Tore it down and cleaned it. Not much dirt, so that was good. I do think it somehow got out of adjustment, despite the locking ring being tight. It was set about a 1/4 turn too far towards the shell holder with a slight cam. Probably what caused the shoulder being crushed.

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Future reference posted for everyone : Dirty dies DON'T repeat DON'T crush shoulders . Might put a dent in them but WON'T crush them .

Seating a different bullet without adjustment most certainly can ,as an improper bullet seater can . Another shoulder squash can be accomplished using incorrect Die , or in progressives WRONG powder bell .

Trust ME ; I've smashed mashed trashed enough cases in 58 years to KNOW

The one time I had it happen was with thick necked brass without an inside chamfer and flat based bullets. I would either crush the shoulder or accordian one side of the neck of the brass.

Glad you got it figured out! My Redding 30-06 dies work like butter! Also, I don't crimp unless it's for a pistol caliber or if I want to in a rifle caliber. You really shouldn't need to crimp a 30-06 if I'm being honest. I haven't crimped my reloads that I shoot in my M1 and haven't had any issues yet. But if you feel like you need to crimp, I'd recommend a separate crimp die to not cause this issue in the future.

I'll also add it's not unheard of to rake a neck ,as every once in a while a plated bullet can be a few .002"- .005" and LARGER , oversized diameter .

As I had been running a number of .44 mags ,through MY Dillon 550 I noticed these West Coast Bullet Company plated jobs were going in really slick . Until one didn't and I simply figured I had cocked the bullet while seating . Then another 60 80 loaded another one crushed half a case side . I then broke out calipers to get and explanation , BINGO NOT .429" but .451" . Yep got a couple of .45's in the mix . Can't really squeal to loudly I paid $32.00 for #500 ,so I got in a order of PPU .44 240 JHP and I must say they are very impressive manufacture and weight variance is naught ,so small not worth mentioning . In MY book that's QUALITY CONTROL .