Anyone have a AR15 with a Red Dot?

I've had the Aimpoint Comp ML2 with a 4MOA dot on my Colt Sporter for several years now. The Aimpoint offers you a fast acquisition, both eyes open, parallax free optical sight. It's not meant to be a precision optical sight. If you want to shoot 1MOA groups, then you'll want a scope. You're pretty much going to have 4MOA of 'accuracy' or 'inaccuracy', however you want to call it.

You're not going to have any problems using a red dot within 300 yards or so, but after that, the dot can exceed the size of your target.

I run an EOTech and absolutely love it. If you don't need the toughened up version, you can save some money and go with the Bushnell Holosight which is identical in functionality to my knowledge. They come in an N-battery size or an AA battery size. The newest "Revision F" EOTechs have a cited battery life of about 1100+ hours on a pair of lithium AA's (about $4 worth).

In fact, the Bushnell line has more reticle options should that be your preference. The reticle has a 1MOA center dot for precision work supposedly good to about 300m, and the outer ring with quadrant ticks allows very fast target aquisition for closer work. I was shooting about .7" groupings at 50 yards using the EOTech and Remington UMC 55gr FMJ before I ran out of the targets I was using. I'm sure I could get under 2MOA at 100yards with some practice.

Traditional red dot sights with very small dots (ie 1MOA) can easily be lost, while ones with larger red dots (ie 4MOA) can easily obscure objects farther out. I feel that the EOTech is a good tradeoff since you have a broad 65MOA ring to frame your targets, and naturally the fine 1MOA dot is in the very center.

I made a diagram of the reticle for my own records. The instruction manual and website only gives dot size and ring size. I had to talk with an EOTech guy to get the rest of the sizing.

The red dots (the quality ones anyway) are very fast inside of 50yds for me. Out to 100yds I can measure the difference in tenths of a second. Past 100yds, I need magnification with these eyes.

If you have particularly good eyesight (mine is around 20/30 and 20/22 last time I checked ten years ago), you may find them more useful; but I find 2-3" eye relief and variable or low magnification tough to beat for all around use on an AR15.

Well, I am sure people with more experience will chime in here in a bit, but I have both tried both an Aimpoint and an EOTech. I really like the EOtech and currently have it on my AR. Even used it to shoot a 100yd match this weekend. While it was not ideal for precision work, I am not even close to being able to tell the difference yet.
As for the AimPoint, I will be putting that on my Kel-Tec once I get the open sights sighted back in.
From what I understand, the EOTech has a 1MOA dot surrounded by a 65MOA ring. I have herd of people using them out to 400 yds and beyond. While it is not the best for precision work at that range, it can hit targets, from what I herd.
Course, you have to have the eyes to see that far, and a target that small.....
hope that helps
Obe One

A good red dot sight is as good an investment as an A3 owner can make,IMHO

Having said that, I don't have a top of the line dots on my AR's(BSA on my M4gery BM and a Panorama Japanese make with multi reticles on my AR pistol/ MP-AR), but at close to $200, and coming with four reticle patterns, I love it...
The BSA is a basic 4 moa dot and if you use the top of the dot as your aiming point, I can get good results out to 80 yds with 12oz pop cans.

The Panorama sight is my favorite and resides on my Pistol build...
It has a simple and very fast 1 moa dot that would conceiveably work as well but faster than irons.

A 4 moa dot, ringed with a largerZ(don't know the moa though)circle around it like the EOTECH. This reticle is awesome fast at 50-75 yards, and you simply have to try it and see for yourself.

A set of cross hairs, with what appears to be about a HALF MOA dot at the center! Which is what I zeroed with. Not fast as the other reticles but more precise,as it seemed to work about as well as a scope,only no magnification.

Last, it has a 1 moa dot in the center, with a ring around it(smaller/more fine, than the 4 moa ring though), with a set of cross hairs that reach half way into the circle, pointing to the 1 moa dot . This one seems to be the best balance of the speed of the red dots, with the accuracy of a scope. It basicly centers itself and you just squeeze off a shot... If done without moving, you hit what you see. I shot a five shot group that had one flier and all others were within a 1 inch circle at 50 yrd, off the bench of course...

I think everyone has already discussed the pros(super fast, reasonably accurate out to distances you cans see, and BOTH EYES OPEN SHOOTING) cons(use batteries, add more to a rifle, and not a substitute for irons, but a supplament) of the red dot, so I say, take the plunge if the bug is bitting, but shop around ...

Check out a PKAS. Theyre about 200 bucks and they are a great sight.

They are a black dot surrounded with a black circle when the power is off. When you turn them on, it becomes a red dot surrounded with a black circle. Very easy to see under any circumstances. Battery has so far lasted forever.

I have an Eotech, and it is an amazing sight. It takes some of the fun out of shooting though because it is so easy.

It is worth every penny.

If you happen by chance to settle on the EOTech line, give Henry at Title II Firearms (http://www.title2.com/, [email protected]) an email. He is a registered dealer on ARFcom. He got me a 552 RevF for $340 shipped and arrived in a few days...beat all other ARFcom dealer prices by at least $40. Bushmaster charges $459 MSRP and I think MAP pricing is $399 which is what I was quoted by most other dealers. I'm sure he can get a good deal on the 511/512/551/552 for you.

Beerslurpy's post also reminds me of the Russian red dot optics. They're very doggone rugged too. I own a Kobra EKP-8-02 that I use on my Saiga-12 semi-auto shotgun. The thing never skips a beat. It has four different reticles: single chevron, single chevron with red dot at apex, red dot, and a reticle with tick marks at 3/6/9 o' clock (kinda like a truncated crosshair) They also have Kobras that use more traditional batteries.

A lot of the AK guys use Tantal (http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/, [email protected]. ) as a source of Russian optics (and Russian AK parts in general). He can make very awesome deals. I got impossible-to-get Saiga-12 replacement parts for a killer $30...basically everything that can be field stripped out of an AK ( complete bolt assembly, bolt carrier/gas piston assembly, recoil spring and rod,dust cover). He also carries other Russian red dots like the mentioned PK-AS. Both are supposed to be used by Russian Spec-ops/Spetsnaz. Shoot him an email for some prices since they aren't listed online.

Anyone have a AR15 with a Red Dot?

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It's more like, Who does not!

MaceWindu

I think so...
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I swear I've seen a lot of gun pictures around where they were placed on a weathered wood deck as a backdrop. Are all these coming from you Zak?

Here's how my EOTech sits on mine, bad indoor flash picture on cheap digital camera, oh well :

I swear I've seen a lot of gun pictures around where they were placed on a weathered wood deck as a backdrop. Are all these coming from you Zak?

Click to expand...

Some might could be mine.

I prefer EOtech and thats what I have on my Colt M4. But Aimpoint sights are well made too. If I had to use a conventional dot I would use 4 moa. I much prefer the EOtech's 1 min dot and 65 min outer ring.
Pat

an scout mounted aimpoint experiment:

I can hit metal sillouettes at 300 yards with my EOTech and it's VERY small 1moa center dot. I had several different 4moa red dots prior, and I had a hard time even hitting a 12" plate at 200 yards!

Maaaaybe...


It's not my AR, but I just ordered the same optics.

It's a Trijicon Reflex II sight with a 4MOA dot. I like it better than the battery-powered sights like the various Aimpoints and the EOTech (although, I must admit I've only fired the Aimpoints on my military M16 and the EOTech on a borrowed Walther G22 for a few minutes), as it has a fiber-optic dot which is backed up by tritium for shooting without much light.

The brighter it is outside, the brighter the red dot is. Similarly, the dimmer it is outside, the dimmer the dot is. Saves adjusting for brightness, like the Aimpoint I had in the army (it was a pain to move it from bright to dim and so forth when clearing buildings, and when on bright mode it wasn't a well-defined dot, and made it harder to aim). Additionally, it saves you from Murphy's Law in that you never need to change batteries.

Trijicon makes different models, some with the 4MOA dot, some with 6MOA, some with a 12MOA triangle (point of aim is the top of the triangle), a 12MOA chevron (looks like an upside-down V). They also provide the properties of the non-point-of-aim parts of the reticle...the space between the arms on the chevron at the bottom are 8MOA, for example. May help with judging distance?

heypete, that's nice and the trijicon reflex is a nice no-batteries proposition. FWIW, meprolight also has a fiber optic, battery-free red dot for a little less moula than the trijicon. Others may as well too. That PK-AS sounds nice also with the black circle-dot with power off. If I'm runnin' with batteries-dependent sight on a serious rifle, it's gonna be an Eotech or the Bushnell Holosight, maybe an Aimpoint Comp ML2.

http://www.meprolight.com/products.asp?id=5

Hey Cesium, could you please tell me why it is, if you know, that on Tantal's site, when you click on the "Kobra and other sights like the PK-AS" link, he lists many different types of red dots but NONE are designated as the PK-AS? Do it go by another name, or what?

http://www.tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/bstkobra.html

i really like that not many people have the optic i chose: trijicon tri-power.
makes me feel unique, a good unique anyways.

when shopping for the optic i sampled a reflex ii, the tri-power, and played with the eotechs at the shop.
i couldn't get used the the reflex i played with, partly because my eyes had difficulty adjusting to the filter, and also because i dislike the reticle. but now the reflex has the option to have a triangle or a chevron, as well as a choice of amber reticle. that might be fun to play with.

the eotech was great, loved the brightness controls, and it was easily visible in direct sunlight. the only downside was that i wasn't convinced i could get good groups with it at distances past 50 yards. i think the eotechs are excellent cqb optics, but i wanted more than that.

so i chose the tri-power. the downsides to it are that it has less flexibility in the brightness of the reticle, and batteries are not that simple for me to find (or i'm looking in the wrong places), and i have yet to find replacement cyalume sticks locally. can order them in bulk online, but what am i gonna do with 50 of 'em?
on to the good points of the tri-power: i can get .5-moa groups out to 100 yards (havent been to a range yet that has more than 100 yards available) from a bench. and once i get more practice, i know i'll get tighter groups prone.
for cqb, its as fast as can be. another thing i'll mention is that although the tripower is supposed to be parralax corrected, if the reticle is not lined up with the front sightpost, it will shoot just a tad off, as in, maybe 2 inches at 100 yards. but if you are shooting at soemthing 100 yards off i'm certain you will have the time to get a good cheekweld.

overall, the tri-power is the most expensive, and right now it is being redesigned with expectations that trijicon will be manufacturing their 'next-gen' tripowers this fall, and should start being delivered this winter. the rep i talked to couldnt give much details about the next gen tripower but he did say it was 'greatly improved' in terms of how the reticle is illuminated. if i had to guess i'd say that they might use the same technique as on the TA31rco, which utilizes that fiberoptic much more efficiently and is far more visible in the brightest of sunshine.

I got one.

red dot

[/IMG] chalk me up for the EOTech and i like it very much.my next choice will be the Kobra flattop mount,looks real nice.

Red Dot in a practical match

Father's Day match 2005
10 shooters
3 scenarios max range 75 yards, minimum 7 yards.
Target IDPA silhouette w/8" COM bull, 6" square head
My setup: Armalite M15A4 flattop, 16" barrel, Bushnell Trophy Red Dot
1 MOA reticle used on all scenarios, Intensity level 10
54 year old shooter, first time using this gun in a match
I scored #1 with Best time and all targest "Down Zero"=no hits outside of smallest scoring area on all targets.

Yes the Red Dot works...just fine!

Leatherwood Red Dot Scopes?

What do you all think of the Leatherwood red dot scopes?

http://www.riflescopes.com/departme...d_rifle_scopes/leatherwood_red-dot_sights.htm

Love the EOTech. This one's the 511.A65 version(N-cell with 2D reticle).
Fast, light, durable, accurate and fairly inexpensive(under $300).