Would it be a straw purchase if...

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Hawkmoon said:
. The laws (misguided as they may be) provide that you may not, as a person not eligible to purchase a handgun from a dealer, have an eligible person buy the handgun for you using your money. If you do, that's a staw purchase. End of discussion.
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Small correction
The law does not care if you are a prohibitted person or not.

If I give a friend money to pick up a gun for me at the gun show because I can't get away and the dealer is from out of town it's still a straw purchase even though I am able to legally buy one myself.

Straw purchase is determined by who's money is used for the purchase, as outlined on the back of form 4473
 
would it be a straw purchase

how about this? I pick out a gun I want.my wife does the paper work in my name-I sign my name and use my c.c.w? ther is a reason for this .:banghead:
 
i dont see why your wife couldnt buy it seeing as the whole sposal privlage and all. but here when i was younger we did the same thing i wanted a gun from walmart or acedmy i told my grandfather would but it i walked in and put the money down for law away and he did the paper work the handed him the gun he handed it to me outside the store.l i went to the pawnshop one time that knew my grandfather and told them he would fill out the paper work and they said ok gave me the paper work i took it to him and he filled it out and signed it and i took it back and got the gun no problem.
 
Hey I gave her the money, it is therefore hers now so she aint buying it with mine :D

J/K

I'm debating between going private for a used gun, cheaper and can probably get a better gun within my price range. Also less headaches from an uncomfertable dealer and stupid laws.
 
I pick out a gun I want.my wife does the paper work in my name-I sign my name and use my c.c.w? ther is a reason for this
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That young man would be illegal. Also, the person doing the sale would immediately terminate it.

BTW, I just gave my 21 year old son his first handgun. One of my .45's for Christmas. :D
 
Lennyjoe said:
John3-16 said:
I pick out a gun I want.my wife does the paper work in my name-I sign my name and use my c.c.w? there is a reason for this.
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That young man would be illegal. Also, the person doing the sale would immediately terminate it.

BTW, I just gave my 21 year old son his first handgun. One of my .45's for Christmas. :D
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Just a week and a half ago, my wife picked up a Colt Mustang for me as a Christmas gift from a local, respectible, sporting-goods store. I was actually going to buy it, but she talked me out of it so she could buy it for me as a gift. I was carrying our daughter and my wife just recently had hip replacement, and without a stroller, I held on to our daughter. My wife filled out the 4473 form for me, I signed it while she held the paper, I used my CWP to eliminate the phone call to SLED, and then my wife paid for it when we got to the register. BTW, we both have bought guns from that dealer on several occasions, and we both have our carry permits. No one seemed to blink an eye when we went through the whole procedure.
 
Get you a new Shooter's Bible / Gun Digest study it carefully, and
make your selection. Then, and only then have your parents go out and
get it for you. BTW, educate them on the aspects of questions to ask
such as proper operation of the firearm you choose, safety concerns,
correct ammo, etc~!:uhoh: You know the deal~!:D
 
word of advice, wait till your old enough to buy one yourself.....
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I am old enough to buy a rifle or a shotgun, there is no reason I shouldn't be old enough to buy a handgun :cuss:
 
Firearms law is NOT someplace to be skirting the grey areas with. :)

I highly recommend you check out this page, which is produced by Jon H. Gutmacher. He's a Florida attorney specializing in firearms law, as well as the author of 'Florida Firearms: Law, Use & Ownership'. It's essentially the go to source for understandable explaination of current law. He updates it every year, and he has a whole section on 'straw purchases' (I'd check mine, but it's at home and I'm at work :p). It's a good book to own for any Florida gun owner, but damn near essentially for CCW holders (I bought mine during my CCW class).
 
there is no reason I shouldn't be old enough to buy a handgun
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There IS a reason. It's called the LAW. Some of the laws that control firearms purchases and possession may be inconvenient. Some may be flatly objectionable. But finding ways to break those laws is NOT the way to make them go away. As law abiding citizens who wish to preserve our rights it is vital that we refrain from engaging in behavior that strengthens the argument in favor of those with opposing politics.

It appears more and more as this thread progresses that you are asking us to tell you what you want to hear. The more insistent you become the more you exhibit the type behavior of that I would not want at my local range: impulsive, indignant, rash, and totally disdainful of the law!

Some of us have indicated that you should wait until you are 21 to purchase a handgun. I urge you to take that advice because if you continue to insist on skirting the law (especially in a public forum) then be prepared for the legal consequences!!
 
when i was a kid as a reward for being a big help during harvest season (as well as a bumper crop, so we could actually afford something beyond the necessities of life) my dad bought me a .22 rifle 'of my own'. We went in, i looked at different models, the owner addressed his questions to me, i picked a ruger 10/22 and a 30 round mag and a scope, my dad paid for it all and filled the forms out. This was then gifted to me, i.e. i carried it out of the store.

when a friend got married i agreed to buy him a gun for a wedding present within a certian budget. We looked at guns, he did most of the handling of various arms, check for fit, etc. I filled out forms, paid for it, and handed it to him to carry out of the store as a gift.

You should be able to do the same thing. Go in, pick it out, have mom buy it, then walk out of the store.

now, if you and mom come to some agreement about extra chores, you dontating to the general gas fund for all vehicles, or whatever, then that is your business.
 
There IS a reason. It's called the LAW
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Something I have said several times I do not want to break. If I did I would go find a bum on the street give him five hundred bucks and tell him to walk into a gun store buy what I tell him and when he gets out there is fifty bucks in it for him. I have said several times I do not want to break the law, the entire point of this thread is to try and find a LEGAL way to get around a redicules law so that I do not break it.

But finding ways to break those laws is NOT the way to make them go away. As law abiding citizens who wish to preserve our rights it is vital that we refrain from engaging in behavior that strengthens the argument in favor of those with opposing politics.
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Not looking for a way to break it and get over on a dealer. I am looking for a way to buy one legaly. It is perfectly legal for me to own a handgun, I can even buy one privatly, the thing I can't do is buy ammo or go through an FFL. Not looking for a way to break it, I am looking for a legal way to buy something that in certian ways is legal and in other ways illegal.

It appears more and more as this thread progresses that you are asking us to tell you what you want to hear.
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How? I am asking for ways to legaly get a handgun. How the heck is that trying to get what I want to hear? The majority of people have offered good advice on the question asked or pointed me to places where I could find better information. Not jsut saying "wait till you are older" that is saying what you feel like saying and offering diddly squat to the topic. If it was flat out illegal that would be one thing, but it isn't if done in certian ways such as privatly, more specificly I wanted to know the legality of a parent buying me a handgun.

The more insistent you become the more you exhibit the type behavior of that I would not want at my local range: impulsive, indignant, rash, and totally disdainful of the law!
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I have taken the time to come onto a message board for months, learn about handguns, posted questions and contributed both on this board and others. How the hell is thinking on something for months impulsive or rash? And disdainful of the law? Disdainful of the law would be outright breaking it. Not looking for a legal way to get around a law, in fact I have said a few times I will likly just go through a private sale (which is perfectly legal) rather then go through an FFL which would a lot more headaches and chances of breaking the law. That is the complete opposite of rash, impulsive, and disdain.

I urge you to take that advice because if you continue to insist on skirting the law (especially in a public forum) then be prepared for the legal consequences
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What consequences? Since when is it illegal to ask a question on how to do something legal that in the most common way would be illegal? Asking a question isn't illegal, and neither is looking for a way around a stupid law in order to do something legaly.
 
You're right. Asking a question is not illegal. What you're proposing may be perfectly legal as well. Or it may not be. But should some aggressive prosecutor or Police Officer decide that your question broadcasted across the internet shows an intent to skirt laws then you may potentially have some explaining to do.

If you want to know what your local laws are concerning the legal purchase of a handgun then you need to check with your local authorities.

If you believe that there is a way to purchase a handgun legally without going through a dealer then you need to confirm that with your local authorities or an attorney.

Don't ask for an answer and then argue the response when it's not what you already believe to be true or if it's not what you want to hear!

What you are proposing can be sticky territory. Some people have said it's not a straw purchase. Others have said it is. That discrenpancy alone should be a red flag!! Check your local laws!! Check with the State or Sheriff Department firearm division. Learn what is allowed and what isn't. Then you can make an educated decision based on the facts of your specific situation.

Your impatience is also a big concern. I understand how badly you want a handgun. I was the same way. I waited for years to turn 21. I read and studied and daydreamed and paged through hundreds of glossy gun rags trying to decide exactly which gun I would get. But I did wait. And I did survive the wait.

There is no harm in waitinga few more months!!!! But there MAY be significant harm in cutting corners. I can't say this any more explicitely. Check your local laws!!
 
Don't ask for an answer and then argue the response when it's not what you already believe to be true or if it's not what you want to hear!
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Im not arguing what I don't want to hear, I am arguing the people who simply say "wait till your are 21" when should I wait isn't the topic. If it was flat out illegal in any way shape or form that owuld be one thing, it isn't.

But should some aggressive prosecutor or Police Officer decide that your question broadcasted across the internet shows an intent to skirt laws then you may potentially have some explaining to do.
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Let them, untill I try doing something illegal they have no cause to do a damn thing. I have asked how I could do something legaly, let them try that before a judge. In fact I hope some gunho fresh from law school prosecutor does read this and get some ideas about arresting me or some bull crap, I could use the money Id be getting from the lawsuit I would have a lawyer filing a few hours later.

Some people have said it's not a straw purchase. Others have said it is. That discrenpancy alone should be a red flag!! Check your local laws!! Check with the State or Sheriff Department firearm division. Learn what is allowed and what isn't. Then you can make an educated decision based on the facts of your specific situation.
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Anything on an iternet forum should be taken with a grain of salt and checked on :rolleyes:
That doesn't mean you shouldn't ask for ideas so you have a bit more opinion and direction on where to focus on.

Your impatience is also a big concern
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What impatience? I don't feel I should have to wait to exorcise my rights and own something. That isn't impatience. Certianly not when it isn't done on impulse.

I waited for years to turn 21. I read and studied and daydreamed and paged through hundreds of glossy gun rags trying to decide exactly which gun I would get. But I did wait. And I did survive the wait.
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Good for you, that doesn't mean I can't explore other legal options because you didn't want to.
 
Sistema1927 said:
Does anyone else see how this thread demonstrates just how ridiculous gun control laws are?
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No kidding. Years ago I had a friend who was hired as a police officer with a small Florida town when he was only 19. He had to carry a department-issued revolver because he couldn't own one, and when we went to the range to shoot I had to sign for his ammo.

I think going to the gun shop with your father, pointing out the gun you want and having your father purchase it as a gift for you would be perfectly legal, especially if you wait until your birthday, Christmas or other event when presents are commonly given such as a high school or college graduation, etc.

Heck, even Sarah Brady bought a hunting rifle as a gift for her son.
 
"If it was flat out illegal in any way shape or form that owuld be one thing, it isn't."


Then help me to understand the point of this thread. If it is not illegal then just buy the thing yourself.
 
The Federal firearms laws require that the individual filling out this form must be buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift. Any individual who is not buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift, but who completes this form, violates the law.

Example: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills out this form, he will violate the law. However, if Mr. Jones buys a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones may lawfully complete this form. A licensee who knowingly delivers a firearm to an individual who is not buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift violates the law by maintaining a false ATFF 4473.

Anybody recognize this statement
You should you signed a federal document saying that you understood and under penalty of law were adhereing to it.
It's not hard guys it's written in fifth grade word problem English
 
Then help me to understand the point of this thread. If it is not illegal then just buy the thing yourself.
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Because doing it myself would be. My question was not the legality of doing it myself, it was the legality of a parent doing it for me.
 
This begining to get boring. Question asked and answered. Gifted- OK. Straw- No. Difference between gifted and straw?--Who puts up the money. All other "scenarios" are merely obscurification.
I would say the overriding consideration is the response and reaction of the Feds and/or local Law Enforcement. This area is "grey" enough to keep you tied up in court if they deem it so.
Unfair? Well SH.. My opinion? Don't push it unless you want to attempt to establish some case law.

Dean
 
IMHO there are many - a GREAT many - instances of parents filling out the forms so their child can buy the gun they saved their paper route/McJob money for. Good families don't sweat someone else's paperwork requirements.

IANAL, but I doubt any law enforcement agency has any interest in prosecuting this sort of thing. And if they did, and (this is important) no actual crime or stupidity - murder, assault, robbery, taking the gun to school, etc. - was committed, successful prosecution would be nearly impossible.

If Dad maintained it was a gift for his son, and the son maintained Dad gave it to him as a gift . . . who would say otherwise?
 
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