2nd Ammendment-Dying Softly?

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Teapot

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If the 2nd is entrenched in the constitution, then why are there so many state and municipal laws taking precedence over it? How can a state or city proscribe the bearing of arms when the constitution allows for it?
It would seem the Second Ammendment to the constitution is dying a slow death, a death by inches.
Many people are embarassed about carrying as they feel it has become socially unacceptable to do so. Rights will be taken away not by a government but by the very people who hold them dear simply out of trying to fit in.
Yet another way those rights are being eroded is by the almighty insurance companies who have been molding society for generations. My son's school ripped up all the playground equipment one day. I thought it was being replaced. Nope, the insurance company said they would tripple their rates if the school did not get rid of it.
Our modern insurance driven society changes things peacefully and without much of an outcry from those affected. Rights die slowly and and softly. Any government that tried to take rights away overnight would face rebellion. If rights are chipped away at then the change is hardly noticeable and therefore accepted.

So what can be done to keep the 2nd intact and free from being watered down by the states or municipalities? Must the exceptions to the 2nd simply be accepted. I may not be a lawyer but does it really take an expert to show you that an inalienable right is an inalienable right? Lawyers and politicians sometimes shame people iby making them feel stupid and unworthy. ''What do you know about the law or about the intracacies of government? You just leave all that to the experts who know better and who are your betters."

It doesn't take a genius to know what his rights are and that they cannot be infringed upon without changeing the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I just think that the States and lower orders of government have really no business taking it upon themselves to dedide which parts of the aforementioned hallowed doccuments they will allow their citizens to have and which parts they will deny to them. Citizens having rights may be inconvenient for government and businesses at times but this inconvenience can never justify the wittling away of said Rights.
 
The Second Amendment was intended to limit the US, and the Tenth Amendment reserves police powers including gun control powers to each State.
 
If the 2nd is entrenched in the constitution, then why are there so many state and municipal laws taking precedence over it?

Because federal courts have ruled that while government can't pass laws banning all guns (that would violate the 2nd Amendment), they can pass laws restricting or banning certain types of guns. The Supreme Court has either upheld these lower court rulings or refused to hear challenges to them.
 
Oh, that is easy to answer. Every time it gets challenged and appealed to the federal appellate court level, the court states that the Second Amendment is not violated, usually because the individual challenging the law cannot show that his possession or carrying of an arm bears a reasonable relationship to the preservation of a militia.

No flames, this is not my opinion, it is what the courts say.

Some go even further. The Ninth Circuit has just ruled recently that no individual even has standing - which is another way of saying that you can't even force the state or local government to answer your Complaint - it will just get dismissed.

The Seventh Circuit upheld a complete handgun ban against a Second Amendment challenge.

The Fifth Circuit upheld some sort of individual right in Emerson, but that was a federal law case, and the court held that the federal law did not violate whatever individual right is in the Second Amendment.

In short, in modern times, no state or local law has ever been struck down on Second Amendment grounds.

Check out the Parker case for more hope . . .

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=214203
 
The simple answer:

The Supreme Cour practices a procedure of "selective incorporation." Meaning, some parts of the Bill of Rights can be incorporated into the equal protection clause of the 14th AMendment.

The free speech clause of the 1st Amendment has been incorporated in this way. However, the SCOTUS decides when and if any part of the Bill of Rights will be incorporated.

When a right is incorporated, it effectively changes the text. As it stands, today, the first Amendment states "Congress, any state of local government may pass no law..."

The Second Amendment has not been incorporated in this way yet. So it still only applies to Congress.

The SCOTUS refuses to touch 2A cases, so we're stuck for now.
 
It is part of history

The eventual outcome is obvious, the hope is how long it can be stalled. The American constitution was written by men trying to break away from a power hungry empire intent on global authority (the British empire would grow to own huge amounts of the world in the 1800s until after ww2). So they implemented rights that would slow (or stop if not chipped at) the advance of thier new government into a similar Economic prosperity>Individual liberty/freedom society.
Unfortunately our great country is little different now than the British Empire was when our constitution was written. Except we cannot conquer territory without outcry, we must conquer other nations economies through 'aid, assistance (military, advisory, etc) and other forms of help'. As well as using 'intelligence agencies' to create wars and pit group against group and nation against nation so they are weaker in direct opposition. It is how we beat the Soviets with the CIA backed organized Islamic terrorist (read easily maintainable morale) we created that now cause us trouble. As well as how we keep most third world nations divided so they pose little threat. Keep them too small to pose direct threat, but too large to be easily taken over by neighbors.They then are created to materialy serve, or in debt to banks that call the shots of thier nation through budget. We are proud of being so powerful just as they were. Our quality of life (materialisticly) is greater by doing so.
So to think the same course will not be followed to insure increased economic prosperity is naive. If only that consitution was not in the way they could do it much more rapidly instead of to the extent of what each generation accepts before having to wait for the next generation to push the boundaries further.
 
I think the courts need a good dose of common sense. They have become entangled in their own ethereal logic. They begin with a common sensical bit of logic and then attenuate it and branch off from it many many times until what they are left with is "'lawyer logic" that can no more be applied to the reality of people's lives than can the theory of communism being applied to real humman beings.
A good grounding in reality is what is called for in the kegal system- back to basics.
 
Hi Y'All...

Something else that is becoming more and more ominous...

More and more "crimes" are becoming classed as "felonies". Felonies used to be either 1st degree, 2nd, or 3rd degree. Now there are at least FIVE "degrees". The current "sexual offender" and "domestic violence" hysterias are the most fertile sources of this.:evil:
Since becoming a "felon" eliminates one's right to bear arms, it is becoming clear that the Liberal-initiated proliferation of "felony" designations is sort of a "backdoor" assault on the 2nd Amendment... and it is being helped (or "not stopped") by many State-level legislators.:evil:

Local opinions may vary
 
It's kind of difficult to live freely without too much interference from governments if one lives in a megopolis. Personal freedoms get infringed so as to make the majority happy. The East coast of the US from Boston on down to Florida is heavily built up, just look at a satalite photo of that area t night.
There is still a frontier area, sort of, left including Alaska so the US is fine compared with the UK. Those poor people have nowhere to run too.

Personal rights and freedoms is directly linked to the amount of personal space one has. As the space around one diminishes so too do the freedoms and rights.
 
funny, some say the 2nd is dieing, yet every year for the past decade states have been adopting pro-gun pro-ccw laws in favor of the 2nd.


states that have joined America in the past 10 years by adopting new ccw laws:

Ohio, Missouri, Kansas, New Mexico, North Carolina.

states that have lessen their restrictions on ccw in the past 10 years:

Michigan, Minnesota, Virginia, Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona, Alaska, Florida.


seems like we're making headway to me.
 
Sure, more states are graciously "allowing" their citizens to practice what is already their inherant right. How nice. First deny rights then give less back.

The fly in the ointment, the spanner in the works or the shti in the fan is now law suits. Sure, deadly force can be used but better make sure the BG dies or he will sue you for everything you have or even if he can't because he's dead, his family will. Imagine having to shoot someone in self defence while at work where the rule is "no guns on the premises"? You could be fired AND sued by the employer.
 
Make No Mistake...

funny, some say the 2nd is dieing, yet every year for the past decade states have been adopting pro-gun pro-ccw laws in favor of the 2nd.

None of this is in favor of the Second Amendment. All the law banning the carrying of weapons in the first place is still on the books in the several states where they have passed law PERMITTING you to carry a gun. All they have done is create exceptions to those unconstitutional laws in the hopes that those exceptions will be enough to placate you into silence. All it will take to lose those exceptions is a campaign of fear mongering after an unrighteous killing, or a bystander gets shot in a defensive shooting. You'll see all those "exceptions" disappear faster than they came on the scene, to be sure!

In all reality, loosing those exceptions would bring us closer to the removal of the unconstitutional law than where we are now. It would have been(and still is) a far better thing to work on removing the unconstitutional law instead of mucking up the process with "permit" laws that only entrenched the original unconstitutional law even deeper. Don't think for one second that our lawmakers are not aware of this. They are not called politicians for nothing, you know. The current crop of politicians is just as guilty for not repealing the unconstitutional law as those who passed it in the first place.

Woody

Look at your rights and freedoms as what would be required to survive and be free as if there were no government. Defend them as if your life depended upon them, because governments come and go, and you might only survive government if your rights are intact. B.E.Wood
 
Salty,
I beg to differ I believe that the second also allows you to carry how ever you decide.
 
One should always look at a law or court decision and ask the question,"Who benefits by it?"
 
States Rights

Why is it, the majority of people (just a guess) scream when congress inacts laws that people dont like they yell its a States Rights issues. Then when thier states, which have thier own constitutions enact some sort of gun laws they scream 2nd Ammendment, damn States Rights...?? :banghead:
 
many states did not honor the 2nd until just recently. i see that as a step forward.

folks in Kansas and Missouri had no right to carry pistol for protection in their state's constitution. they can now do so.

folks in Minnesota and Michigan had bias laws allowing only those in political favor to carry a pistol for protection, now any descent person can get the same considerations.....i see that as a step forward also.


in no way is the 2nd out of danger. in fact, without a US Supreme Court decision in favor of "the people" as intended by the original authors, it will always be under attack by those who have no personal honor or respect for this country.
 
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