Little bit of paranoia for the day

The ATF is watching YOU

It's not paranoia, more like you have expanded your situational awareness.

I could not say for certain, they are watching you, or I , or everyone here.
But when you think about it, there is the chance that a few employees of an alphabet soup agency, are members here.
There is the chance that every forum with a built in search engine, is subject to key word searches every few minutes by more alphabet soup agency employees.
We live in a world that comunicates largely by computer, and if they like to monitor comunications, then looking at what we type is not much of a stretch to imagine.
We know to keep our friends close and our enemies even closer, thats why we pay attention to whats the next horrible thing to be voted on in DC.

If I ever get a cool firearm in trade from a friend, I am not required to do a background check, or register it here in Oregon, and when I chat on any internet board I definitely won't mention it. Because I to wonder if someone besides the sysopp, and forum members keeps track.
If you want a conspiracy, or theory of, ask who starts all of the wonderfull chatrooms, blogs, forums, and figure that probably a few of all of them are shells put up by an alphabet soup agency, with specific information about our favorite toys being squirreled away, maby they are only focusing on black rifles today, maby .
So what I am trying to say is if you or I could think something is happening, then someone else has had similar thoughts, and someone else is probably already doing something about it.

I will finish what I was saying in a minute, there are some vans pulling up out front.

Oh heck, I'd be more shocked if they didn't look in on gun forums.
The California Dept. of Justice regularly looks in on CalGuns.net
They referenced it in some e-mails that were released under FOIA!

I've mentioned this offhandedly a couple of times on a couple of boards, but the concept has been consistently passed over.

My concern was especially with respect to those of us who list our toys at the ends of our posts. And a diligent researcher could go back through all the posts on a board and pretty much be able to figure out who has what, just from our discussions and questions.

I have no doubt that, should TSGCTHTF (The Sh.. Get Close To Hitting The Fan), these boards would be a rich data mine for gun grabbers. I would suspect, without actually knowing, that certain groups, organizations, and individuals already have interns and others reviewing, categorizing, and ordering all our names and all our queries about guns.

Paranoia? I agree with the above poster that it's really an enhanced situational awareness.

And if you think our screen names are anonymous and protect us from inquiries of this sort, just ask any of the child molesters who've been nailed recently (one case in Canada comes to mind immediately.)

For myself, I'm too old to be much of a real threat to anyone, so I don't worry about it too much.

Nevertheless, paranoia is a survival trait.

Loved that pic of a tin hat at the Ham Field Day, if that's what it was. I used to host Field Days on my pasture east of town. The field density on that patch of ground must've hit 100 mW/cm2 at some points in the contesting. (Pardon the Hamspeak.)

de wd0xxx

To be honest, I hope they are watching. There are literally thousands of people on this forum. They should have to look at huge masses of people, every day, who think that they're full of crap.

I hope they've taken note of what I own and what I intend to own. I hope they caught all of Gunkid's nonsense and Gecko45's nonsense and have a backlog of it.

Let them watch if they want. It won't stop me from getting what I want.

My concern was especially with respect to those of us who list our toys at the ends of our posts. And a diligent researcher could go back through all the posts on a board and pretty much be able to figure out who has what, just from our discussions and questions.

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But said diligent researchers would be wasting time, and -
if they are government employees -
should be relieved of their duties for wasting taxpayer money.

Why? In my case, my guns were all registered with the state at the time of purchase.

Thus, said "diligent researchers" would only have to check the state data base to learn what guns I own.

I have broken no laws. I have nothing to hide, and less to fear.
___________

"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep.
It starts when you're always afraid.
Step out of line, the man come and take you away.

We better stop, hey, what's that sound,
Everybody look what's going down."

(Buffalo Springfield, circa '66)

As someone said earlier it certainly happens in california. I think one thing to keep in mind though is THR is well moderated and the members here hold their postings to a high standard. I honestly can't recall seeing discussions here that really centered on anything that was of questionable legality. Calguns obviously is a somewhat different scenario with the ar15 receivers. Most of the discussion here tends to be more political discussion. Actually I've very seldom seen anyone post about illegal things over a number of different forums.

If I had to put money on anything being watched it would be for sale forums being baited with people wanting to make bad buys of guns. Personally I can say I've had one seller try to get me to accept his gun via UPS direct to my home and not to my FFL. I just bailed on the entire deal and found the same gun elsewhere. I would also expect to see extra scrutiny over some of the build it yourself forums with the atf looking for people selling receivers that are too complete, or manufacturing without a license.

I honestly think there isn't much the ATF could do with anything they found here or most other guns forums. As an IT guy too I'd like to point out that you don't have to sit and read the forums, I could scrape the information daily and get a very convenient automated report pointing out the sections with key phrases I'm interested in. Remember everything you post here is very public. Also consider that anti-gun lobby groups are reading forums and trying to develop new methods of attack based on what they read.

Nematocyst-870 Assumed:

if they are government employees -
should be relieved of their duties for wasting taxpayer money.

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Maybe, maybe not. Besides, I was also thinking of volunteers, etc, working for the Brady Campaign, as only one example.

One thing I noticed was that someone actually used his Ham ( Amateur Radio Service) call letters as a screen name. Holy. Cow. Looked up his call, found name, address, date of birth, etc. Lived near you, in fact. Notice I quote mine as wd0xxx, sorta like gun serial numbers, just to indicate I'm a Ham, if other Hams are interested.

And, more importantly, don't forget that many of us live in states where registration does not exist.

I heard this somewhere, don't remember where it's from. "Let him who has ears, hear, let him who has eyes, see."

By the way, Soybomb, it's not a question of "questionable legality." It's a question of whether or not at some time in the future, when "legalities" change, these forums might provide a rich data mine. I think that's what the original poster meant, so let's not get off the track.

You add: "I honestly think there isn't much the ATF could do with anything they found here or most other guns forums."

To which I would say: "Not yet."

Let's not be shortsighted. Firearms legalities change --viz recent examples in English-speaking countries around the world. Let him who has ears, hear, let him who has eyes, see.

I HAVE seen some things of questionable legality (both here and at TFL). Now granted, such are usually closed post-haste by the mods, and any post that DOES make it tothose threads usually consists of "dude, that would be illegal". But it does make ya wonder if we aren't being baited and watched...

I'm more concerned with future illegalities.

Over which the moderators have no control.

I refer you to my post above.

With as many members and moderators who are cops, don't be surprised if BATFE gets regular reports. That is how they {and most other law enforcement agencies} primarily operate..... with snitches trying to curry favor with "the Man"

Anyone else think the ATF or some other government agency might keep an eye on this forum for one reason or another?

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I have no doubt that someone from the federales is.

With a combination of institutional paranoia, all the bandwidth taxpayers money can buy and processing power out the wazoo they (the walls have ears. You know of whom I speak. Say no more, say no more.) probably have machines watching.

It's called data mining.

So ix-nay on the illegal stuff, ix-nay on listing every bang stick you own. Cultivate the **** habit.

it's your tax money at work. everything is looked at, all the time. The Feds have an unlimited budget and need to spend it each year, so there's probably a unit of dweebs who sit there and read this stuff all day long, 9-5, 5 days a week... Hi, dweebs!

Do not be concerned. No one is watching. You have total privacy here. Don't be afraid to share everything with one another.

Eleven Mike,
Private Citizen

Even if they were following my posts and even if they were trying to discover what I owned, it would do them no good. The would be able to find out what shaggycat owns, but as far as tracing it to me, how could they do that? They could find out I am a student in Nashville who is from Kentucky. My email address is only used for this website. I list no private information such as my name. My guns are are not registered, nor do they have to be.

The fact that you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Of course they do. This is a place where hundreds of people get together more-or-less in public and talk about guns. At least once a day someone advocates breaking the law, and there are regularly threads where people talk about sedition and violent revolt against the duly-elected government of the United States. The Nameless Minions of the TLAs certainly understand that most of it is hot air and keyboard bravado. But I'd be shocked if they didn't keep tabs on us.

I doubt we are interesting enough to warrant our own agents provocateurs. Oleg and his crew of motley moderators do a great job of shutting down the really stupid stuff and keeping everyone within the limits of good sense and the law. So we're not almost certainly not on the "A" list or even the "R" list. With Stormfront and the jihadis having their own forums there are much bigger fish to fry.

They have a perfect right to do so. With the NSA's warrantless wiretapping, the new laws giving the Executive the right to datamine and tap with impunity and without warrants or subpoenas there's nothing there to stop them. Don't like it? Consider voting for someone who will take us back to a time when the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments were part of the law, not just "that damned piece of paper".

Anyone else think the ATF or some other government agency might keep an eye on this forum for one reason or another?

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This has been discussed here ad nauseum ... to the point that we even have a name for the government folk watching us here; Agent Schmuckatelli (do a search for his name ... you get something like 128 threads).


Yes we are being watched here by government agents ... just like any other remotely political forum on the net.

More importantly we are being watched by fence sitters and antis (hence "The High Road").


There is nothing even remotely anonymous about teh internets.


The paranoid question isn't "Is Agent Schmuckatelli Listening?" the paranoid question is "Is that chest thumping instigator over there actually Agent Schmuckatelli?"

the paranoid question is "Is that chest thumping instigator over there actually Agent Schmuckatelli?"

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Of course I'm not. The very question is offensive. Now go on about your business.

They were listening to Princess Di - they are listening to you as we type.

Now - let's say there was a rash of terrorist acts like Tim McVeigh as someone decided that the SHTF over a new AWB - what do you think? Do you think a new Patriot Act like bill might be applied inside the USA?

Do you think that the records of all who are NRA members, bought some gun stuff through a credit card, subscribe to a gun rag, or blustered that they aren't going to take it - isn't going to surface in some government file?

And who might protect you - you - in your house - with your AR, bucket of gas and a video of Waco - or the ACLU and NRA combined in the courts to file suit against such laws? They have worked together in the past.

What if a future 'decider' - decides to sign such a law?

shaggycat said:

Even if they were following my posts and even if they were trying to discover what I owned, it would do them no good. The would be able to find out what shaggycat owns, but as far as tracing it to me, how could they do that? They could find out I am a student in Nashville who is from Kentucky. My email address is only used for this website. I list no private information such as my name. My guns are are not registered, nor do they have to be.

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There is the little matter of the IP address.

I moderated at a wargaming forum for a while, and we had a pest that got banned for various things. He kept creating new accounts, but we knew it wa him. The admins simply looked up the IP addresses that he posted from and banned those. No more from him. Methinks the feds have even more ability in this regard.

Uhh..huh, huh...

why wouldn't they? It could easily be someone's job to check the online forums once every so often for choice phrases or topics. Most of the data-mining could be done by simple programs designed for the task. It would cost almost nothing, and I think it would be perfectly legal or at least plausibly deniable (agent schmuckatelli likes his guns as much as you do; he just happened to be on THR and couldn't help but notice your plans to level an oil refinery with your .50 cal sniper rifle and incendiary ammo ).

I would do it if I ran the ATF. I wouldn't spend a lot of time or company resources on it, but I would do it, just to see which way the wind blows if nothing else.

When I write a post on this or any forum, on any subject, I assume that anyone, including law enforcement, could be reading it. I consider them a part of my target audience.

Oh and shaggycat-- If you're logged in via an internet access account that belongs to you (your home box), they can find that, easily. If you're online via the computer at your school, they can find that much out, and could (with some effort) ask who was signed in to that computer at that time. If there is no process of signing in at a public computer (which they're often isn't), and no cameras watching it, then and only then, they can't trace you.

shaggycat, every time you log in here your IP address is recorded, the mods have access to this number (and in fact use it to ban people).

Entering your IP address into a program like this will allow them to find you physically (although that doesn't always work ... my IP address says I'm in Atlanta Georgia when I'm in Colorado Springs).

In addition, if the feds were to serve Oleg and Derek with a warrant and take the computer this board resides on, you'd likely find that most people here have registered with their home email address ... a quick call to your ISP and threats of search warrants and they'll cave and give that info out (assuming they can't just find your email address with one of these).

Again, the internet is NOT anonymous by any stretch of the imagination.