Trigger Job on a AR-7 Explorer Survival Rifle

Don't bring a file anywhere near that. Get 1000 grit paper and a block of wood or metal, and enhance the surfaces with that. If you noticeably take ANY metal off, you've quite possibly ruined the FCG further. I'm pretty sure those are just case hardened, and if you break through that you're out of luck.

Also, I just took a closer look at the pictures. You're not even near the engagement surfaces, and it looks like your hammer is flipped over, unless Henry has a much different internal design than my Charter Arms had.

EDIT: No offense, but... if you can't figure out the way your trigger and hammer even interact, perhaps you should leave them alone? If you simply must have work done, why not let a gunsmith do it?

A safe way to find out if polishing will work is apply some JB bore cleaner or some valve lapping compound from the parts store to the engagement areas and cycle the firing movement a hundred times. Check it and see if it shows any uneven wear (not all parts are 100% true to each other) and will start he polishing process for you. Safest way to "start" in my book.

Justin

Agree with just polishing and no files. Take the burrs off is about the best you can do.

Again, let me point out that the surfaces you've shown are NOT the engagement surfaces. I highly recommend leaving things alone or bringing it to a proper gunsmith.

By modifying your gun in any way, you take your safety into your own hands.

Here's where you want to enhance (polish means taking metal away, even if just a few thou) by using a whetstone or 1000 grit (better yet 2000 grit) wet/dry paper and a block to keep things level and sharp.

DO NOT use lapping compound or anything of the like. If any of it gets embedded into the metal, your gun will go FA at some point in the future.

Take it slow, just enhance the surface. Don't try to polish any marks out.

I don't know anything about that particular trigger, I've never had experience with it. I do however feel I should chime something in here. DO NOT use a file of any type OR the suggested 1000 grit sandpaper for any trigger work. I'm not the only one who will tell you this, any halfway decent smith will say the same.. the proper tool is a medium grit square india oilstone. (Ceramic stones can be used for some parts, and also possibly a fine or ultra fine stone for finishing or buffing wheel.. depends on the part). It needs to be laid on a flat even surface, and honing oil must be used. The reasons for this is you need to keep everything even. The most minuscule degrees of being uneven MATTER. The honing oil must be used to keep removed metal from sticking in anywhere and making the polishing surface.. once again.. uneven. You can't do that properly with any file or sandpaper.

As PTK did say though, don't attempt it if you don't really know what you are doing. It will not work out positively.

hexidismal

I guess I've been trained improperly? I was shown to enhance engagement surfaces with 1000 grit paper on a perfectly square and level sanding block.

Hey there PTK. I didn't mean anything personal by it, nor did I mean to insult whomever your instructor(s) may have been..hehe Hope you didn't take it that way. For all intents and purposes, I imagine that method would technically work, and probably does regularly. But if we're talking a little more precision here (as much as possible with hand to abrasive work anyway), what I said is true. Sandpaper will hold some of the removed metal in it's grit, thereby altering the "cut's" uniformity. An oiled india stone is technically the better choice. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the medium oiled india stone is what most of the big names in gunsmithing things such as S&W revolver trigger jobs will be using to do the job.

Actually I personally use the medium india stone for the main grit work, then one or two runs over a fine stone, then a quick buff with an extremely fine paste polish.

DO NOT use lapping compound or anything of the like. If any of it gets embedded into the metal, your gun will go FA at some point in the future.

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Please cite sources. If a piece of silica or even aluminum oxide can be embedded into steel with a shearing motion, it must be really soft steel!

Also, if a grain of sand could cause a gun to go FA after trigger work, you 1) have an unsafe weapon and it shouldn't have passed post work QC, or 2) it would go FA on it's own with the right/wrong kinda of ammunition and too much has been done to a trigger.

WE should market this sand for FA conversions. Imagine paying the $200 tax stamp for a mythical piece of polishing agent.

Justin

Actually Roccobro, PTK and I are in agreement on that one. See, you're sort of comparing apples to oranges in your "piece of sand" concept. Where you said..

If a piece of silica or even aluminum oxide can be embedded into steel with a shearing motion, it must be really soft steel!

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Well.. no. I don't think PTK was trying to say that the working agent of a compound itself would simply push itself throuh steel, but rather that because an abrasive compound is DESIGNED to be "sticky", that it could stick in the small lands and grooves made by tooling. If that were to happen it is possible that it would continue the job of wearing metal simply by the action of the moving parts rubbing on what was "stuck" in there. Not likely ? Perhaps, but a totally unnecessary risk, with no particular benefit over the proper tools. I did say I sometimes use a very fine paste for a quick buffing, but I also then buff it clean from every angle if I do.

I believe proper cleaning would alleviate this potential problem. But as most guns are used out in an unfiltered the environment, (and a WHOLE BUNCH are in use in the sandbox) I think this fear is unfounded.

It is a common practice for old school Marlin owners to take a new lever gun and fill it with toothpaste to smooth the action. Or how about the quick and dirty trigger job for S&W snubbies using a mix of JB's and CLP? Abrasives? Absolutely yes. Problem? No, as they clean their guns afterwards.

Instead of warning against abrasive pastes (JB bore cleaner is a pretty popular item that is designed to get shoved in peoples guns...) why not warn against leaving residue in the lock work of the 'smithing firearm?

Justin

Second DT in 24 hours.

I had one of those about 30 years ago. (Sold it in about '83.) IIRC I epoxied a piece of thin sheet metal against the surface that the trigger stops against to reduce overtravel. It made a difference.

glad you posted this I have an AR7 so always open to suggestions, magazine feeding seems to be a problem also.

Dubious- Here is where I polished mine. I didn't touch the engagement area on the trigger "tip", just the hammer's engagement area. I polished the rounded area that the trigger engagement travels on before and after, and smoothed the edge exactly where the two "let go" at the trigger breaking point- truing them to each other with abrasive paste. I cold blued all parts except the engagement areas you see polished.



The portions you point out with red lines are the safety engagement points. They do nothing except hold the hammer back with safety on. (notice my AR-7 Industries Inc. parts are a little different shaped than your parts)

While you cannot make the trigger much less of a pull in weight(due to the spring), you can get the grittiness out. I stoned all the flat areas of the parts to eliminate edge burrs from the stampings and in the bolt where the hammer may contact in it's swing. I also had to smooth the cover plate heavily around the mag release, and also the mag insertion area (where the paint overspray is). That area was so tight, to get a mag in and out a whole lot of force had to be used on the mag and lever. Poor tolerances in the casting was the problem there- not the paint overspray of course.

Good moly grease helps right there too. You can see some at the hammer pivot point where it rides in an indention in the cover.

HTH.

Justin

Ok.. now I've got to chime back in here. Let me first say, Roccobro, I don't mean to get personal here, I have no intention of "arguing" on the internet, but I do have to comment on some of that stuff because I believe it's important to give out the proper information since the proper function of guns and the safety of their users is an important factor in 2A advancements..

Here go's

I believe proper cleaning would alleviate this potential problem. But as most guns are used out in an unfiltered the environment, (and a WHOLE BUNCH are in use in the sandbox) I think this fear is unfounded.

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Well.. not really. It's too vague to simply say "cleaning". Proper removal of most abrasive compounds on small interacting parts requires more than just a rub over with some solvent or oil and a rag/patch. As far as the "peice of sand" and "use in the sandbox" are concerned.. you're just way off on that like I tried to say before. Sand off the ground is not comparable and quite frankly has nothing to do with an abrasive paste compound or even to the aforementioned 1000 grit sandpaper. You mention JB's, and that's cheating ! JB's is a very different substance than most abrasive pastes and compounds and it's formulated specifically not come out all on its own after the fact. And the abrasive in it is SO mild that it doesn't do much of anything.It's called BORE CLEANER for a reason, would an abrasive meant to actually polish metal be used in a bore ? I think not. Although that does bring me to the next thing..

It is a common practice for old school Marlin owners to take a new lever gun and fill it with toothpaste to smooth the action. Or how about the quick and dirty trigger job for S&W snubbies using a mix of JB's and CLP? Abrasives? Absolutely yes. Problem? No, as they clean their guns afterwards.

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Just because the bubbas do these things, does that make them appropriate ? The people that do this kind of thing are the ones that wind up bringing their guns into gunsmiths later to fix their mistakes more often than not. Bad Ideas all around. They may slick/polish the actions slightly, but they most certainly do not effectively align uneven material surface engagements. You said it yourself when you said "quick and dirty trigger job" .. well quick and dirty is not the way any trigger work should ever be done if you want it to be of any value.

Now.. on to the pictures of the polishing you posted. Let me be clear on the fact that I would have to see the function first hard to have the clearest indication of what needed to be worked on. I have 0% experience with the particular gun, but it looks simple enough that I can get a pretty good idea. But from what i can see.. Honestly.. I don't get it.

When you say "stoned all the flat areas of the parts to eliminate edge burrs from the stampings and in the bolt where the hammer may contact in it's swing." .. I think I see what you mean. You're saying you polished the rounded edge of the hammer (basically) right ? But that wouldn't affect anything except a smooth movement of the hammer to its sear/hammer notch engagement (when the gun is cocking the hammer), which is fairly useless in any case other than if you were getting malfunction due to casting so bad it was causing misalignment. From what I can tell you haven't affected the sear engagement at all, which makes it not qualify as a trigger job at all. I could be very wrong about this, because I can't see exactly what you did, but it doesn't look like the areas you worked on would actually affect the grit of the actual pull.

Again, I mean no insult in any of this, but in the interest of bettering general knowledge.. I can't help but state that I take issue with your statements and methods as helpful. Now If I'm right I'm right, and if I'm wrong then I'm wrong. All I can really say to the original poster is.. take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt and reasonable doubt, whether it be from Me or anybody else

Hex- Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You are correct on almost all parts.

but I do have to comment on some of that stuff because I believe it's important to give out the proper information since the proper function of guns and the safety

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I guess in my prodding I wanted to know if there is a written rule to NOT use abrasive lapping as a part of a quality trigger job. I'm one of those jerks that would go against a 99% majority on an issue unless it was well documented "fact"- not just consensus.

There are only two parts to the trigger mechanism. The part under the coiled spring is the hammer and sear, and then the trigger.

When I said I stoned the flat parts, one problem I was having was irregular ignition. You are right in thinking it was for possible contact between the hammer and bolt in the swing of the bolt on firing. This in fact helped out with this particular problem. Also helped in reliable cocking of the hammer.

I did polish/stone the engagement are, but I will not admit to if or how much I changed any angles. I did improve the trigger pull, but I don't remember more than it was a "noticeable" improvement and could not be safe with any less pull weight (spring negates any improvement in weight feeling). I have had some weapons I've monkeyed with have more than one shot go off than I intended, but certainly not this one! I'm lucky enough to get a follow up shot with standard ammunition and ALL the AR-7 legendary faults my gun seems to possess.

Justin

Sounds like a bunch of guys arguing about how to hot-rod a Yugo.

Jim

hehe.. maybe Jim, but actually if you look back you'll see that almost none of this has really been about the gun in question, but rather mainly a discussion about proper standard operating procedure.

Still though... If a Yugo is what you can afford to drive, why not make it run as nice as possible ? I don't believe good triggers should be exclusive to people who can afford high end competition guns. In fact I think it's deplorable what kind of triggers you get on almost all production guns today. Take a look at the cheapest off the rack colt revolver from the 60's and compare the action to a modern production ruger or smith. Heck, I've got a colt commando .38 from WW2 era which was made fast and cheap in bulk by colt.. not worth much, and it STILL has a better trigger than new production wheelguns.

Now I want to play with one of those AR-7s. Roccobro's photo is a really good one for showing how the action is set up, and makes it pretty clear. Studying it, I feel like I could really do something with the trigger there, but it would require some cutting so I'm not going to suggest it to the OP. Another thing about "hotrodding a Yugo" .. I really enjoy trying to do some work that is unconventional, just to show it can be done. ESPECIALLY on cheap guns in fact. I'm still making one competition shooter/range owner eat his initially derogatory words about my Neos which now breaks super crisp at 1.7 or 1.8 lbs with 0 creep

my Neos which now breaks super crisp at 1.7 or 1.8 lbs with 0 creep

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WOW! I'm not even close to that light on my NEOS trigger work and I'm tickled pink with it.

Justin

After looking at the AR7 fcg design it appears that it would have significant trigger slap. Unlike AK and AR the disconnect is one piece with the trigger. Of course on the other side there are less parts to to fail. Now I need to get one. Good thing they are not selling parts kits...